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Why, I Say, White People Can't Dance (And, Yes, It has to Do with Race/Culture/Rhythm, Appreciation, & Respect)
Introduction
For me, saying white people can't dance has nothing to do with the typical answer that they don't have rhythm. I think the reason for it includes some parts of that, but also something more systemic or structural - race relations and learning cultural contexts.
Dancing is a language (in the way we think of, respond to and through language). Its movements are its words and its grammar is its rhythm. Don't get it twisted; rhythm and grammar are really one in the same. The dictionary defines rhythm as the procedural aspect of a beat or flow.[1] Procedural means the rules and regulations. There are rules and regulations for grammar (i.e. sentences have to have a subject and a verb: She cried.) Again dance is a language—means of expression. It probably is the most articulate form of body language. The analogy I am making here is that the body language we use when talking is also language, but it is what would be comparable to everyday speech. A dance move is comparable to a well-formed speech or lecture. Lastly, a dance performance is comparable to a paper, essay, poem, novel, book, etc.
By all of this, I mean to say that when I say white people can't dance or at least can't dance with black people, I mean that they have not only not picked up a certain set of rules and regulations associated with the body and the overall beat of (black) dance, but also—in many cases— have not picked up the overall flow—philosophy of (black) dance. (To go further understand what I mean by the flow—think of it like overall meaning or point or culture of dance. Refer to the diamond footnote on page 3 for more info.)
I think this phenomenon is linked, in part, to the Puritanical tradition and white culture's fundamental devaluing and mistrust of the knowledge gathered from and experienced through the body. This tradition comes into direct conflict with the African tradition and the traditions of the African Diaspora, where the knowledge from the body is not only valued just as much as the knowledge from the mind, but continually used, acknowledged, and sought after.
This fundamental difference of perspectives regarding the body has led to different philosophies and rules of engagement regarding dance and movement—in other words, black and white people talk differently and that leads to miscommunication, misunderstanding, and even disrespect.
I am aware that this essay grossly—indiscriminately—lumps all white people and all black people together without addressing the variations due to cultural perspectives, attitudes, or expressions. I understand that what I say about black and white people does not apply to all people or groups contained under that distinction. I know there are some white people, who may be black, culturally & phenotypically, as well as there are some blacks that may be white, culturally & phenotypically, as well as know there are innumerable categories that complicate and problematize what I say here. Because of the urgency of this essay and my limitations, I cannot do justice to all those stories. The hope is that everyone will step up to the plate and do justice to her story—for everyone's sake—because the world needs to know you are out there.
Dance in this essay is primarily referring to black American dance—black American culture and procedures (rules of engagement). While I talk about dance generally and my specific experience with dancing at a club, I mean to connect that conversation to American black and white race relations, generally, and my individual experiences (as a black American woman of Belizean and Southern American heritage) with white people, specifically.
This article gears towards showing a connection between the specific and the structural, the private and the political, the everyday and the yesterdays, the present and the History, stories and the metanarratives. It also gears towards giving everyone language in which to talk about dancing and race relations in America. It also gears towards airing out my frustration caused at the club that day—It is my healing (I had the hunch that it would be other people's healing as well). Once again, I apologize if this speaks too loudly for any one group or dance style.
This article is written for all people, but especially white people. By white, I am talking about white Americans and by black, I am referring black Americans. This essay intends not to forget about the white people who respect and value black culture and what it means as well as black people and what they mean.¨
It also does not intend to forget about the white people who not only respect and value all the things said in the paragraph above, but have learned to dance with, (not at), black people through acculturation (i.e. growing up with, not next to, black people), through learning about the history behind our vibration, and/or through somehow intrinsically picking up the rhythm. Thank you. You all, in the words of Jessie Jackson, keep hope alive. KEEP DOING THAT!
Now I want to let you all know why I am even writing this in the first place….
My friend Adaobi (black American woman of Nigerian heritage) texted me, last Thursday (5/10/07) saying that she is tired of doing physics and wanted to go dancing.
[Let's pause right here: the reason or shall I say need for dancing was for a release. So already it has another meaning than just simply dancing's sake or because she was bored (nothing is wrong with that by the way. I'm just making a distinction here). Adaobi wanted to dance for peace of mind. Okay, let's continue]
So, we go to Sister's, which is located in Philadelphia. Although Sister's is generally frequented by white people, Thursday nights were admission plus 8 drink tickets for $10. This coincidentally was the night that the most black people showed up.
We get up stairs to the dance floor area pumped and ready to move—release, heal, let go. Then I began to notice two groups that predominated this party: black people and white people. The dance floor's energy was not a united energy. It was choppy, disconcerted, and actually sort of hostile. Because of this, I watched and analyzed as I danced as well as got angry at the series of things that went on that night—most of that anger was felt towards and because of the white people at this party.
Now, knowing all of these interesting details, I hope I got you hooked on finishing this article. Below is a more detailed description of what happened last Thursday night. It is followed by a possible solution to this persistent problem of black and white people (not) dancing together.
Ethnography of Last Thursday Night at the Club
Description and Background
Walking up stairs to Sister's dance floor, I, cheesing and laughing, hear the booming music. The room was surrounded by mirrors on each wall, a bar was on the right and the DJ booth was diagonally from me. There were disco lights and mainly 70's disco, hip hop, and R&B playing. The sidelines were carpeted with a few stools against the mirrors. I noticed that black and white people predominated the party and actually, there were slightly more black people than white people. Black people were on the perimeter, on the carpet and near the mirror, and white people were in the middle of the dance floor.
Here, I see the weirdest thing I have ever seen at a club: The black people were dancing in the mirror. Now, I don't mean one of two, but about 15 black people in total were dancing in the mirror with themselves—completely disengaged from the dance floor and actually having a ball and cheering looking at themselves move. Behind their back was a dance floor filled with white people. It would be a stretch to say that the white people were dancing. I saw white people making out, falling on the floor, standing talking, and, I think, moving.
Now, like Adaobi and I said that night, I don't mind people having sex or falling on the dance floor, so long as they are doing it to the beat. Let me pause here and make another analogy to dance and language: Dancing to the beat means staying on topic in conversation. When people dance to a song, they are agreeing to engage with its beat—its topic. It is like going to a lecture about Spiderman. You expect everyone to be willing to talk about Spiderman if they entered the lecture hall. So that is what (black) people entering a dance hall expect. It gets annoying to talk to someone if you are focused on a topic and they are off-topic and tangential. It is even more annoying when the person doesn't refuse to stop talking. Replace talking with dancing, topic with beat, and off-topic with off-beat and read the previous sentence again.
The Abaobi and Me connection
Adaobi and I were doing exactly what we came to do. We were vibing. I had more of a hip hop expression while we were dancing (talking) and she had more of an African dance expression, but there would be many times when what we did looked eerily similar and even, we would begin doing the same movements together spontaneously.
We were smiling, jumping, stomping, waving our arms and heads, dipping, wining, and turning (on beat of course). We looked like we were celebrating something (or just really excited about what we were talking about or maybe just really excited to talk to one another). At times when I noticed that I did not look at her enough, (look engaged in conversation with her), I started to look at her and give her encouraging responses when she danced such as "Uh, oh” or "okay now.” (Think of shaking your head in affirmation when talking with someone). I did that to make sure she saw that I saw her and appreciated dancing with her. Sometimes, we would teach each other something. I would start doing a movement and she would do it with a question or hesitation in her step and then look at me for correction or confirmation, then I would do it again, then we would do it together. It took seconds for each of us to learn what each other was teaching because we had such a strong basis of communication before hand.
How Black People Responded to Us
Black people were responding to us as if they were wondering how did we find the energy to dance that way, in a space like this? Because our style was not typical even if it was also based in tradition, black people did not know how to enter our conversation. So instead, they looked at us and smiled. Some tried to do it too, I caught them in my periphery, but when I turned around, they automatically stopped, like they did not want me to see them attempting to learn our styles (language).
We could see black people smiling at us and pointing to other black people to come watch. Because our style was so different, they let us have our space to enjoy our language together, our culture together. They did not come and impose on the space, even though they liked what we did (how we sounded), because we were so into it. They wanted us to enjoy our time together. This was giving credence to the importance of giving people the space to enjoy their individuality.
Other black people created their own space regardless of what we were doing some where else while still giving us our space. We did the same to them. The powerful thing is that we all were moving and expressing ourselves to the same rhythm, the same beat—overall philosophy.
How White People Responded to Us
Adaobi and I did not want to dance in the mirror or the sidelines. We felt the dance floor was as much of our space as it was anyone else's. So we danced on the dance floor amidst the white people. The energy between us was clear. It was clear that we were in deep conversation with one another.
The white people completely seemed to disregard this. At the beginning, a couple of them came in our space range of dancing (our conversation). Bothered, Adaobi and I moved. I assumed, innocently, that they must have not noticed that we were deep in conversation. I also felt bothered because they were unaware that their presence limited us and forced us to find new space. However, I swear that white people kept doing this about 20 times that night. I thought the white people would see the pattern of my annoyance. But that was a hope in shallow well. That is when I noticed this behavior could not be a random act by the white people at this party. It must have been the result of their language, their culture, their misunderstanding and even their disregard of our language and culture. That is when I connected the event to the structural, the behavior to the culture, the symptom to the syndrome.
My awareness heightened and I began to pay attention to what was happening and what was being communicated at the club. Below is the list of all the things white people did that night that let me know that (1) white people and black people speak two different languages (when dancing) and (2) how white people and black people danced together (or next to each other) was representatives of how black people and white people interacted with (or to) one another.
The List of Things of Disrespectful Things White People Did to Adaobi and Me
Because the list is so long, feel free to skip around. Us refers to Adaobi and me. Enjoy, because I certainly did:
A) Say Excuse Me Cuz I Exist!
White people kept dancing or walking through us while we were dancing, without saying excuse me or acknowledging our presence. (The black people walked around us and even if they walked through us, they apologized for doing so and looked us in the eye).
B) I Will Not Tap Dance for You!
I stopped dancing because I got upset at what happened in A. I moved to the mirrors and the side lines staring blankly at the dance floor, the white dance floor. A white girl sitting at the bar tapped Adaobi and me and said that we are really great dancers and have amazing energy together.
I got excited because I felt that finally a white person gets it and acknowledges it. Then she followed up by saying, "Can you do it again. Go do it again. Go, go back on the dance floor.” She said this while simultaneously pushing us on our lower backs and still saying come on dance again. When we didn't move and looked at her like she was crazy, she went back down to sit with her black partner. I said to myself that I am not your puppet, I am not dancing for you. Then I realized once more, white people don't get it. She didn't even get that we left the dance floor because we were so offended by white people.
C) Just Cuz You Know the Words Does Not Mean You Know What I'm Saying or
If Ya Don't Know Wat's Cookin', Ge' Outta Da Kitchen!
We go back on the dance floor because we got so much energy from dancing with each other, we wanted to release one mo' ‘gain. That is when things heated up for me. The white people began to try to mimic our steps—our words. Then with excitement for learning this new word the white people tried to use it with one another. Fine, whatever, so long as they stay away from me with it because once the white people took it, it was no longer mine and I no longer wanted it. This is an example of what I mean:
Seeing this white girl take the step that I was doing, messing it up, and showing it to her friend like she invented it, is like a person taking an artifact because it was "cute” or "cool” that was originally used for blessing a child and putting it on a mantel to show all their friends. It no longer serves it original purpose, it no longer means the same thing in that new context. When a person, who views the artifact as sacred, sees its new use, they may feel gravely offended and even disown that artifact because it was now defiled.
D) I Don't Belong in a Museum or You Can't Box Me In!
A group of three white people started coming close to us, again, without being invited in the space—which happens through eye contact and acknowledgement. They start doing the only black dance movements (words) that they know—yes they knew the words but not the appropriate usage.
They literally started closing Adaobi into a box, which was interesting because it looked like Adaobi was dancing her black dance encased by white people and their stares. I already left that circle when they welcomed themselves in without waiting for our reply.
Adaobi finally broke out of that and found me on the sidelines, again, watching the dance floor. She taps me and says, "I know you were heated. I am really sorry.” We stared at the dance floor again, in disbelief.
E) Doing the Electric Slide: Black People Uniting to Takeover the Dance Floor
(But the White People Almost Foil Us Once More)
This was my favorite part of the night, well at least for a while.
Some of the black girls that were primarily dancing with themselves in the mirror started doing the electric slide—which is a really popular line dancing form for black people (we do it at every family reunion). Adaobi and I see that and we begin to join in, not from where we wanted to begin but from where the girls were currently. Very quickly, all the black people that were on the sidelines or in the mirror began to join. We quickly took over the entire dance floor.
Before this, you wouldn't have known that there were that many black people in the club. So, finally I am happy. Happy that black people stood up, as a unit and demanded that people, who couldn't get with the rhythm, back the fuck up (or people, who couldn't get with the lingo, shut up). Literally, if you didn't know it, you were likely to get pushed or stomped on by someone accidentally and even purposefully.
We finally got a chance to be as black and as loud as we wanted to be. It was very clear that we were saying something. We looked like a disco-army, sharing in one unified understanding or flow. Yes, we were all in one grammar but each of our sentences looked very different from one another. I was spinning my arms as I moved. Some one else was moving their shoulders a lot. Someone else would dip low and long. Some smoother cats would glide. Adaobi had a little African style to her electric slide.
Surprising almost all of the white people did not reenter the dance floor. Well at not least for a while. Then this white girl, who I remember was one of the white people trying to mimic me and Adaobi, tried to come in. Okay, fine, I could understand if she practiced before she came in or at least knew something about the step. Nope. She jumped right in stepping on people and getting in people's way. This is when the problem began.
There were three rows of the electric slide. This black girl was trying to form a fourth row, when the white girl jumped in. Because that white girl kept stepping and falling on her, she quit trying to make the fourth row and went back to standing on the side lines near the mirror. Finally, when the white girl realized that we were moving regardless of her and without the intention of trying to include her (no black person tried to show her what to do), she left the dance floor.
I asked my friend Kathy Huynh what would she have said to that girl. I said that the girl looked like she was appreciating what we were doing. Should I say that white people should not try join in with black people's conversations? How would anyone learn? Then Kathy brilliantly replied, "I would tell her, ‘Thank you for appreciating and wanting to genuinely learn what these black people are doing, but also give them the time and space to appreciate their own culture, for themselves.'” I will leave it at that, because I couldn't have phrased it better.
F) Grrrr!: Overt and Blatant Disrespect
As Adaobi and I are dancing, this white guy does not only bump into me, but stays there pressing the crevice of his back into my shoulder and arm. I was like, "He must not notice I am here.” So I pushed him off of me and said "Hey, watch it.” He looked at me surprised. I thought that meant that he was really didn't know that he was doing that and wanted to apologize, so I stood there waiting for a reply. He says nothing, humps my thigh three times, and pinches my butt. I screamed and said, "Get the fuck off me.” Then amongst me screaming and walking away from him, he runs up and humps Adaobi's butt three times and then runs back to his crowd of white people.
Farewell to Hell
When we left the club and got to the bus stop, I just started kicking and punching this poster on the bus stop of a large white man's face while also screaming. I turned to Adaobi, apologizing for my screaming, thinking she must think I am crazy. She replied with a saddened face, "No, Shayna, don't worry, I understand. Trust me, I understand.”
I kicked and punched to poster, because I felt helpless. I thought that there was nothing I could do to stop what happened at the club—what happens almost every time black and white people dance together—interact. The only thing I could come up with, is writing this article, hoping it would change some (white) person's perspective, hoping that white and black people could interact in a space without being offended by each other, and hoping it would help me heal from my hurt that night. Hoping—it seems like that is the only thing I ever do next to speaking up about my feelings. It hasn't changed much thus far. And to tell you the truth, I'm getting tired of hoping and discussing. I am tired of putting my self out there—(on the dance floor)
Maybe that is the same reason why all those other black people were on the sidelines and in the mirror. They were tired of trying to interact with white people who did not even have the slightest interest in knowing where they were coming from, what they are saying, or respecting and appreciating what they value. It speaks so much for our society today, yesterday, and, sadly and most likely, tomorrow.
(End of Ethnography)
Creating a Solution: Eliminating Racism
Through Learning to Dance
Here is my theory: White people should learn or at least try to learn how to dance black while simultaneously either valuing it as much as they value their dance or at least respecting it as much as they respect their dance. Remember now, I am using dance as a synonym for language and as a synonym for culture. Keep this in mind and it may be easier to replace dance with culture and vice versa in this passage.
The reason that it is critical for white people to learn the dance of black culture is so that white people can be not only aware of black people's perspective, be sensitive to it, and value it as good and valid, but so they can work to eliminate the privilege given to whiteness—meaning those characteristics and people in America that is termed as white. (Having privilege here means having special value. So white in America has special value at the expense of black)
That means dismantling the privilege given to knowledge that is predominantly mind-originated and working for a valuing of knowledge that is holistic meaning knowledge that incorporates the body as well as the mind. That means dismantling the privilege given to aspects of American society that have been structured and conditioned primarily and predominantly by white people—i.e. our school system (colleges and universities too), the standard in which we evaluate performance and intelligence, etc.
This work aids the process of eliminating racism which is having prejudice (ex. white is always better) and the power to enact it (ex. A white person stopping a black person from getting X job because that black person is not white, culturally or phenotypically). Racism is also believing in the inherent superiority of a particular race. The implication of believing in the inherent superiority of a particular race is that all those that do not fall into that category become less than or somehow deficient or down right bad.
Now, what that means is that white (culture or features) have become sacred in American society—hence the statement, "White is always right.” So, for some people, it may seem horrific or like a tragedy to speak of dismantling what they have held so very sacred. Let me specify here. I do not mean that white gets devalued when I say white privilege should be dismantled. No, on the contrary, white people should value their whiteness (whatever that means for people), just not at the expense of another. Shoot, I value my blackness (I know what that means for me. Email me about it if you want to know). I can't stand when white people say, "I hate being white” or "I hate white people” or "I only like black people." NOOOOOO! Don't eliminate privilege by self-hatred, white people. Eliminate privilege through either working to give everyone privilege (value) or conversely, giving no one privilege (value) over another.
One may ask why blacks don't just learn to dance with white people instead of white people learning to dance with blacks. Well, to whoever you are thinking this, what I have to say is that black people have been shucking and jiving with white people for years. It's time for whites to give up some privilege, for peace's sake.
For our survival, black people had to know the white person's rhythm (culture). Look at English Ebonics[2] and "standard" English. To write my papers in college, I had to use and learn the grammar of "standard" English when I usually speak in the English form of Ebonics. I would always tell my professors, why can't I just talk to you or debate with you rather than write a paper? Or why can't I write a poem or do a dance instead of writing an essay? This is not saying that writing is not important, for it is, but why can't I couple it with another form of expression or even another dialect of English? (I believe this has to do with valuing and devaluing. Or "following tradition""meaning following "white is right." People don't like to admit this to themselves.)
This is also represents a battle inside myself to stay sane because I have come to value certain aspects of white culture, but also know that those aspects are rooted in a disregard, disrespect, and a devaluing of black culture, something that I have internalized and made sacred inside myself. So often, this battle, at times, makes me want to throw away or destroy anything that is white inside myself or any symbols of whiteness around me or conversely, throw away or destroy anything that is black inside (outside) myself. Dubois talks about this in his reference to the "double consciousness" of black folks. He says
His [the Negro's] double-consciousness, this sense of always looking at one's self through the eyes of others, of measuring one's soul by the tape of a world that looks on in amused contempt and pity. One ever feels his two-ness,"an American, a Negro; two souls, two thoughts, two unreconciled strivings; two warring ideals in one dark body, whose dogged strength alone keeps it from being torn asunder.[3]
Since I can't escape white culture in this society, the only way to reconcile this terror inside of me is to help alter white culture to value black culture"to value me. That is what this article intends to do.
So now I am saying white people have to learn to dance with us, if they want to unlearn racism and reconcile its effects. I realize that I have gone as far as I can go with trying to dismantle racism. White people, it is your turn. It can only be finished if you let it be finished.
Furthermore, it is important for white people to know and value the dance of black people's culture (or of any person of color's culture) because white people in this country have been bred to be mono-cultural and bred to devalue other ways of being that are not like theirs. This has the consequence of further obscuring reality"or realities that are strongly felt and lived by others. So, in a sense my particular double consciousness is both a blessing and a curse. However, it does not have to be a curse. It is only a curse because one of the consciousnesses that I have come to value degrades and tries to eliminate the other consciousness that I have strongly internalized as my basic self. It is a blessing to have more than one way of looking at the world. For example, I learned in a neurobiology class that the nervous system has at least six ways to receive the same information: hearing, touch, taste, smell, sight, and proprioceptors. As my professor said, "It helps us get things less wrong as well as adds more depth to what we perceive."
In other words, our body purposely has multiple perspectives that come into conflict with one another in order to get the sharpest notion of what actually is going on. This is reason enough to unlearn racism. Racism prevents people from a depth and sharpness in their perception. Conflicting realties are not inherently bad. People make different ways of seeing bad. Our nervous system seeks different perspectives, knowing that difference can not only be helpful, but also good.
To relate this again to dancing: That is not telling every white person to go find a black person and ask them to teach you their culture. That is ridiculous. What I am saying to white people is, be aware that (black) dancing has a grammar"rules of engagement. Try to find out what they are in a respectful manner that has in mind that not every black person, all or any of the time, is interested in teaching white people their grammar. Keep in mind that there are some things that cannot be spoon-fed and require the arduous task of experience and learning by oneself. Also keep in mind, like my friend Kathy said, give black people the time, space, and respect to appreciate, enjoy, marvel in, get relieved by their own culture, by themselves.
Also, more importantly, keep in mind that black people learn your grammar by spending time with white people and in white and white-originated institutions. That is not saying that white people should flood black communities and black institutions (that has all sort of problems like gentrification, and violating the importance of respecting organizations and spaces for affinity groups).
What it is saying is that something will be lost if you just learned black culture through books, movies, television, music videos on BET and MTV, jazz C.D.'s, other forms of recorded black music, artifacts, and whatnot. Basing one's view of a people solely on any one of these can be problematic on so many levels, especially since the media grossly misrepresents or complete stereotypes of what they choose to portray of black culture.
What I am saying is to also GO TO THE PRIMARY SOURCE"black people. That first means putting a face to all that you love of black culture and loving that face as well"loving meaning valuing. This does not make everything accurate or peaceful, but like I once said, you would be skeptical of someone's ability to speak Spanish if they told you they never met a native-Spanish speaker, never been to a Spanish-speaking country, and solely learned Spanish and what they know about Spanish culture from reading a book.
All and All
If white people begin to work to actively dismantle the privilege given to whiteness and give value to blackness, if this occurs, one day right there in Alabama, little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers gettin' down wit their bad selves. If this occurs, I believe white people and black people can finally dance together, well at least figuratively.
That's my story and I am sticking to it. Peaceeeeeee. No, seriously, peace.
¨ I admit some people, even some black people, don't know or haven't thought of what black culture and black people mean in America literally. That is fine because I am willing to bet that those acculturated into black culture know what it means intuitively"in other words, they know it through its feeling or feeling in general. Recognizing what black people mean includes valuing them as human-beings"living, rational, irrational, and moral beings. But what I truly mean is valuing their contributions as a people to not only American society, but also American identity and culture.
Comments
I think you miss the point of
I think you miss the point of the article. There was even a very long intro explaining how she's not saying "White people can't dance". She means in the context of body language + culture + physical expression.
"It was rude,immature and arrogant to ignore the white girl that was trying to have fun, learn and join in."
Why do you feel this way? Why is it anyone's job to teach the white girl anything? It's their choice and from the description the white girl was more interested in disrupting and getting attention than learning the dance. There were plenty of times I was not familiar with a dance but I sat on the sidelines trying to observe & learn FIRST before I evaded someone's space. I didn't assume someone would teach me and that they had the obligation to teach me.
Very immature, self-pitying
Very immature, self-pitying post. The majority of people in cheesy clubs, black or white, are awful dancers.
I'm a good, rhythmic, fluid dancer (and white), and the oblivious drunkards on the dancefloor are the bane of my life. The real problem is promoters not getting them off the floor and keeping them off.
However, to turn this into a long-winded racial crusade is narcissistic and misses the point that the interlopers are drunk, and brought up in a culture where dance is absent, or looked on as effeminate/stupid.
Punching a poster of a white man because a white guy lurched through your space in a club? Please turn off the victim switch, and realise that not every transgression against your person has a racial angle.
Stop saying this piece isn't
Stop saying this piece isn't racist. I think it's a practical, insightful, valuable piece; but it IS racist. You can't just say ALL white people ruin your dancing. Fuck that.
Please Read Fully
When I was in high school I took an AP history class. The very first day the teacher told all of us that we cannot read a piece of writing one time and hope to understand what it is saying. He told us that we had to read a paper (or chapter or book) at least 3 times before we could really get what the piece was saying as well as commit the information to memory.
I see a lot of people on here yelling racist, screaming that "Yes, white people can dance and you are just ignorant for saying otherwise!" and all sorts of other things that just doesn't make any sense. It's obvious that these people didn't read deeply enough or didn't understand what the author of the post was really saying or talking about. (In fact, she even states clearly that she was painting the picture with broad strokes and not every person fell into the generalized categories she set up).
Before you jump on the keyboard and rampage in the comments section, I encourage you to step away from the computer and then come back and read the article again and maybe you will understand that she is not attacking anyone but sharing her viewpoint about race relations in America.
Race relations in America is not the same as they are in other countries. Or maybe they are but with different ethnic or religious groups. In some parts of the world it is the gypsies who are treated like second class citizens and for other countries it's the Muslims that are getting shanked. But it's the same dynamic that plays out with a dominant privileged culture disregarding (or minimizing) the wants, needs, and sensitivities of other cultures it deems inferior, irrelevant, or insignificant.
I agree that in America we are trapped in a bubble that slowly suffocating all of us and the only way we are going to get out of it is by walking together in the right direction. But that can only happen if people take the time to really understand what the other person is trying to communicate before jumping on the attack.
Anyway, that's all I wanted to say. I don't agree with everything you have written Shayna but I understand the gist of it. I also agree with others who say that sometimes we need to reach out and offer to teach others how to dance (communicate) because that is the only way people of any color or stripe will learn how to interact with others outside of their social group.
As for me, I'm a mutt :)
white people have a more
white people have a more variety of dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7CgUszTKy0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXFiFg2GX6w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgSO_mouCaM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W22gpBv00gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emCIxAJCe2g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzmhV7JXvO8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydRjBbWszsk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXhQNRsH3uc
while blacks dance tend to be nothing more then dry humping
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCNoz26oRrs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKkBkU81Rf0
white culture dancing is art, black dance is sexual
wow, ignorance
I actually went to some of those links and the scottish dance, the russian dance and the waltz are all almost like a form of ballet. First of all, Tango comes from Argentina, and the tapdance comes from African slaves, the riverdance videos were nothing but a form of tapdance as well. Im just as bad as you for even acknowledging your ignorant post but i felt that if someone out there really is as ignorant as you, that i should at least educate you some. Im not black i`m actually latino and i can totally understand the writer of this article. So before you start making racist comments about cultural dance learn the history first. And yes, alot of the hip hop and reggae dances are very sexual, perhaps you could take some pointers, cause ya probably dont know how to fuck. Who said that a sexual dance cant be artistic by the way? open your mind ya peanut head bastard. Youre probably the doofy ass white person who came up to the dancefloor and started actin a fool. Think about this, even in all those videos you posted up there, all those white people were trained to dance the way they did(which some was a joke by the way) but in the vids with black people dancing, they were just average people who just knew how to dance and didnt rehearse as much, it was just natural. In my experience with the white people i`ve met and seen, dancing has to be very cerebral and thats the only way they pick it up and even after they learn it, its still lacks much flow and naturality. The only dance that i really admire that i think derives from white people is ballet because to be a good ballet dancer one must have balance, dicipline, focus, grace and stamina. Anyway, im a natural dancer because luckily i grew up doing it and its in my blood.
concert dance and folk/social dance are two different things
The argument is ridiculous. This is a discussion about social dance in a club and not about ALL types of dance. MOST white people cannot do the dances that are "art". There are also many black people that also do "artful" dance.
Wow
This is pretty hateful. I grew up overseas and people treated me differently because I was foreign and multiracial but looking for hate is not the way to address the problem. That pinching jackass, for example, probably pinched white woman too.
You are part of the problem, not the solution. Your post doesn't spread the message of MLK or Ghandi.
Yes!
Wow, wow, WOW, the racist and downright naive comments that this post has racked up to this point.
1. "I'm a white person but I don't act white, I swear!" -- Yes, you do. White_You is a racial being. Own it. Deal with it.
2. "How dare you! Blacks are mean and RACIST!" -- No, folks of color deal with this tripe every day. You are using diversionary tactics so you can put your thumbs in your ears and yell, "nya nya, can't hear you!"
3. Listen to the woman! If the bouncer of every night club passed this out as a flyer (required reading before entering) all of my fellow white people would be that much the less ignorant for it.
4. To Serendip - *Thank you* for taking the time to share your valuable insights. Roger that. And sorry white people messed up your night -- That sucks.
It's not racist at all
I've found that white people (as a general rule) tend to be highly disrespectful of other people/cultures. Part of this article is focused on the fact that this lack of respect shows through in almost everything they do. I'd like to see a person of color cut in between a dancing white couple etc., they would get VERY upset. Basically this makes a lot of whites racist hypocrites of the worst kind; they can dish it out but they can't take it. I find it delightful to poke holes in their overinflated egos by reminding them that they are not 'massa' anymore and that their less-than-perfect history proves that they really are no better than anyone else. If you want to see just how bad their superiority complex really is, just tell a white person "NO" when they make an unreasonable request or 'politely' order them to do something and watch their expression.
your comment is everything.
your comment is everything. white people stay touching POC hair, getting in the middle of them dancing and just overall disrespecting us but when we speak up, we're racist. what.
In pointing out that white
In pointing out that white people are disrespectful, you are being dis-respectful yourself. How does it feel to become the hypocrite you were trying to lambast in your reply?
I LOVED YOUR COMMENT SO GOD
I LOVED YOUR COMMENT SO GOD DAM TRUE!
Whites have no problem
Whites have no problem respecting (although not always accepting) other people's cultures. It's when they are shoved into our faces in our homelands, do we feel annoyance - but this isn't an unusual notion. Imagine how throngs of Mexicans invading predominately black areas would go over. Do you suppose the blacks would rush to "embrace" Latino culture? I didn't think so.
As far as the "cutting in" between a white couple...I can imagine this happening, and the White couple not saying a word. Don't want to appear "racist". But reverse the scenario: a White man "cutting in" to a dancing black couple. Well THAT wouldn't happen but if it DID happen, their would be a mini-riot breaking oout. We KNOW "you people".
No, we are not "Massa" anymore...unless you want to gauge our accomplishments without the help of blacks compared to the accomplishments of blacks without the help of Whites. If you want to examine the hard truth in that respect, plant an African flag next to the American one on the Moon.
Massa has been waiting for black company up there since 1969.
homeland?
If you judge people by "achievements," then I hope that you never are down in the dumps, unemployed, fail at something in your life, because for sure there will be people that judge you as "less" than they are or as a "loser" and maybe you won't enjoy or appreciate that.
I would like to know, what do you consider to be white people's "homeland?" It surely is not the U.S.A. or any part of the Americas, or Australia either. Europeans did not arrive here and start settling until 1492. And although I'm sure there were some who respected the natives that were here, history tells us, and the amount of native peoples still left in the Americas, that that was not largely the case. Europeans' (or white people) homeland was Europe. So please tell me when Africans en masse have ever shoved their culture (your words) in European's faces in Europe? Actually it was the other way around. Europeans went to Africa and invaded, went to Asia and went to the Americas and shoved their culture (and religion) onto the people living there.
Now I personally do not consider any white person today responsible for atrocities and suffering that was committed over the last 500 years. I think that each person is responsible for their own actions and not that of their forefathers (or mothers). But I had to bring this up because what you wrote about homeland and shoving culture onto people makes no historical sense.
And since you brought up space travel, if and when extraterrestrials eventually come to earth, we will all see how much of a difference all of our cultures and skin colors make. At this rate that's what it's going to take for people to start realizing that we may have cultural differences, worship different gods, speak different languages, look different, but in the end we are all human beings--one race on earth.
Homeland!
"I would like to know, what do you consider to be white people's "homeland?""
Not only Europe but the "U.S.A." (notice I did NOT say "America)"Canada" and "Australia".
Why can I say this? I thought I made it quite clear: throughout recorded history it is evident that tribes compete for land, food and other resources to ensure the survival of their tribe - to ensure the successful perpetuation of their specific genetic code. This has always been effected by war; one group sees another group as an obstacle in the way of survival and they either attack, conquer and kill the competing tribe or face the same.
The White Europeans were no different. They saw a land ripe with resources and competing tribes standing in their way. The attacked, conquered and (stupidly) failed to kill off the defenders. They (stupidly) brought African slaves to do the menial work necessary in building this nation and when the winds of change compelled them to cease chattel slavery, they (VERY stupidly) failed to repatriate the African back to his homeland or kill him off.
Eventually, they met in Philadelphia and formulated the plan for a more perfect Union...for themselves and THEIR posterity (see the Preamble to the Constitution) ... and all was well.
Well, not quite. A certain tribe that 'appeared' to be White had embedded itself into the levers of power and began to sow the seeds of the new nation's destruction. We feel the effects of this tribe today.
"Australia" was a bit different; penal colony that morphed into a White nation, they (stupidly) failed to kill off the Aborigines and now the same difficulties besetting the USA are affecting Oz.
I think if extra-terrestrials ever make their presence on this Earth known, they will likely attack, attempt to conquer and kill ALL forms of humanity to exploit the resources of the planet.
Some tribes will unleash state-of-the-art technological weaponry to counter this attack. Others will throw sticks, stones and set their homes on fire.
Homeland! LOL
Thank you for your response to this article. I for one did not agree with the tone of this article. However, I was somewhat intrigued by your comment; “I thought I made it quite clear: throughout recorded history it is evident that tribes compete for land, food and other resources to ensure the survival of their tribe - to ensure the successful perpetuation of their specific genetic code” and was compelled to respond.
First of all I would like to ask you a few cheeky rhetorical questions. Do you honestly believe in the above statement? Why? Well, where do I start?
No. 1 If you truly believe in survival of the fittest, why haven’t you topped yourself. The sheer fact that you took time out of your important/blissful schedule to respond to this article tells us that you don’t fall into this category.
No. 2 Why aren’t you out overseas stealing new lands for your master race instead of doing point number 1?
No. 3 Why complain about a race allegedly far smarter than your own, a race that was able to basically infiltrate and dismantle your master plans for a new European utopia? LOL Sorry that part always makes me laugh. Trust me when you get older you’ll look back at your comments and laugh or cry.
Also, complaining about the third point contradicts your ethos of a dog it dog world. And every time you hear on the news that some nut-jobs flew a plane into a building or some kid shoots up a school or someone sliced your siblings into Cinderella all in the name of survival, you should smile/celebrate because that’s the world YOU aspire to. Your response does nothing but perpetuate a negative stereo type, that people in the USA are stupid.
Before I go, I have another twist on your “Alien fantasy story”.
My version:
I think if extra-terrestrials ever make their presence on this Earth known, they will likely attack, attempt to conquer and kill ALL forms of humanity to exploit the resources of the planet.
One tribe finally realised united we stand and divided we fall, whilst other tribes opted for extermination by the Aliens to escape the delirious first tribe.
All fun and games aside, you sound like a very sad person and I think you should seek professional help before you hurt yourself. Feel free to contact me and I’ll take you out and introduce you to some good people. Life’s not all blood and war.
Peace
What a bunch of self
What a bunch of self indulgent nonsense.
many people missed the point
I read the entire article and I liked it. I don't think it was racist. I have grown up in the U.S. and although I am multi-racial in background and do not look African-American I was raised African-American. My parents consider themselves black and they look it. Anyway, for me, it has always been strange that the white people I knew in college and beyond, had a completely different way of viewing dance. This is reflected in some of the responses to the article. When I was growing up every time there was a family gathering, everybody (children to grandpas) got up and danced. We'd have dance contests sometimes too, or just dance. Nobody was drunk either. It was a given that you knew how to dance from a very young age and you did not feel intimidated to do so. This was part of our culture. I know that this is also a part of African culture, many latino cultures, indigenous and some middle eastern cultures too. I know many white people in the U.S. (although not ALL of course) that will not dance in public unless they have had several drinks. They are too intimidated. Dancing was not part of their growing up or social interaction unless alcohol was involved. If you say "party" to black or latino people, then you expect there to be music and dancing. If you say that to white people, their might be music but probably there is no dancing. I have been to tons of parties given by white folks and we stood around and talked and ate and drank.
While I understand the
While I understand the frustration conveyed in the article, I feel that several of the complaints lack real justification. Firstly, I do agree with the concept of dance as a language; in most dances that originate outside of Western culture, the movements are learned not merely as a physical vocabulary, but as a way to convey meaning to the audience or fellow dancers. Whether this meaning is literal and static for each movement, or more transient, depends upon the dance. Forms such as hula, middle eastern etc. are all used by the dancer to communicate, whether this is an understood 'story' or simply emotion, depends largely upon the dancer his/herself. The problems with 'outsiders' misunderstanding and/or disrespecting a dance form are not limited to the general 'white' perception of African-American dance, instructors of belly dance classes see such disrespect all the time (most commonly the misconception that it is somehow about sex, and requires little more than 'wiggling'). However, I must disagree that we are dealing with an issue of racism in the white response. Rather, I feel it is a misunderstanding that many have about what this 'language' truly is. The author is spot on to say that dance itself is a form of communication, but fails to pinpoint who does and does not understand it, and why. Dance, I have always felt, is not a language understood by any particular race, rather, it is a language of the soul. Some are born with the ability to speak it(white, black, asian, whatever), others are not so blessed, and must apply themselves to learn not only the vocabulary, but the proper usage. That certain people seem never to acquire a true fluidity of movement or oneness with the music, is perhaps due only to the fact that they lack an innate connection between mind and body. Just as some are born (regardless of race or gender) more naturally talented at science or mathematics, and others with a talent for writing or art, so it is with dance. I am possibly as white as they come (though my mother was Italian, she would be the first to say she has no rhythm whatsoever, and my father's ancestors were Welsh Puritans), yet I and one of my brothers were born with an ability to move with music as though it played from within, an inborn comprehension of the language(our other siblings can't/won't dance).
That said, I can fully understand the frustration and disgust at the others in the club. However, I would point out that clubs are, in general, a terrible place to make judgments on anyone (whether it be their dancing capabilities or the motivations behind certain actions); people at clubs are drunk, frequently out of control, and tend to say and do whatever appeals to them at the moment, no matter how unlikely they would be to say it in their day to day lives. What the author took as racism or disrespect for culture, was perhaps only a drunk girl's inability to say anything polite, a white boy's revolting disrespect for women in general, and the fact that, when you're in a club, it's crowded, and people, self-centered creatures that we are, tend to trample each other. I've only been to a few dance clubs, but they always seem to have the same atmosphere, and it is not a place I would take my tribal group to have a 'conversation', unless we had been invited specifically to perform. A conversation that is personal and important can be had anywhere, anytime, without the detraction of an unappreciative audience.
In addition, I feel as though the author moved onto a tangent that played against her earlier argument for cultural respect and language when she broached the idea of using English Ebonics to write a paper, or to write a poem in place of the paper. As a graduate student in Medieval Lit, I feel she has unknowingly shown the very lack of respect she urges others to have. One must understand that the English language, as used in college level courses in that department (freshman expos/writing for example) is an art form in and of itself. The ability to write, and do so in a flowing, musical style, is a part of Western culture that many cherish. If I a student disputed a low grade because I had marked down due to the usage of a particular dialect, I would point out that I would not have accepted any attempt to use non-standard English in the essay. Also, as it was a writing course, an essay, written in standard, grammatically correct English was required, no exceptions. We must all take courses we dislike, I was quite near to holding a protest at the idea of taking Biochemistry, which I despise with a passion, but it was required, and so I complied with the guidelines set out by the professor. If the language of dance must be respected, its vocabulary used correctly, then so must any language (English, French, Spanish, Chinese, German, Japanese, Italian) or cultural art form. To me, it would be as if a student who did not speak English as a first language wished to write their paper in their native language instead, an unreasonable request, as the purpose of taking an English writing course is to learn how to write in the style accepted by scholars in that subject.
Now, as to racism in our culture in general, and the concept of guilt. I have felt for some time now that our society's leaders have perhaps unwittingly emphasized the idea of race, even as they claim to try to blur those lines. As someone else mentioned, there is frequently a sense that the majority should feel guilt, and speak and act with caution around minority groups, which is absurd, as the current population were neither the perpetrators, or the direct victims, of the original racist atrocities committed. Americans today deserve neither feelings of guilt, nor greater respect for their culture than any other. We are Americans now (not tomorrow, or ten years from now) not because our races are separate or blended, but because we choose to believe ourselves so. Immigrants who arrive today, treasuring our heritage of rebellion and pursuit of freedom, are no less American than those whose ancestors arrived in 1631. We do not need to become the melting pot, we already are. I truly believe people my age are, in general, race-blind; I don't think race crosses our mind anymore than whether someone is blond, brunette, or red-headed. It may be found in isolated pockets of society, but it is not a general rule. To become angry with "white people" based upon the behavior of a select few (in a very unflattering condition) is rather like choosing to despise all those of Irish descent because an Irish guy once insulted you, it's illogical in the extreme.
To the author, I would say, offer to teach the language of your dance to others, welcome them in, be patient as they learn, and open yourself to learn and respect what they hold dear as well. It is always tempting to be possessive of something held dear, but if we truly love something and wish others to respect it, we must desire others to love it as well.
Contradicting much?
I thought it was a pretty decent article until she started contradicting herself completely. #1. when she says she doesnt want to categorize white and black people, but then does exactly so in the entire article and #2. she says she wants black and white people to dance together/side by side but when white people tried to join the black people at this club they were completely frozen out and ignored. theyre trying to mix, arent they?? in the end, she sounds more racist than the people she is accusing...
Low-life
why the hell would someone wanna talk about crap like this??? and BTW blacks and whites cant dance, Asians are the best have u seen the ABDC Champions?
You say at the beginning of
You say at the beginning of the article that you're not going to lump all black and white people together. But you do exactly that all the way through, its all "whites do this" and "blacks do this". The problem is that people aren't just "black" or "white". Hell, seems a bit racist - you seem to be saying that there's two big distinctions in America, black and white, and that they have to adapt to one another's culture. Things aren't quite simple like that. And then, near the end, you talk about some "white guy" being a dick and humping your leg or whatever, and apparently that was a case of racism, or whites misinterpreting black culture or whatever, and that would never happen between two blacks. No. It was just some guy being an asshole. If you're going portray it as something, portray it as sexism, or just some guy being a complete and utter asshole. You get them everywhere. I'm white, but I still manage to dance with a beat with whites and blacks. I get annoyed when I don't have my space as well, like you. I give others space. I've never seen any of this so called segregation you seem to be talking about, I can dance with white friends and black friends and my black girlfriend. But, come one, its just dancing. Its just freaking dancing. I look stupid when I do it, and I'm not all that great, I'm sure, but its fun. I mean jeeze, just lighten up and have some fun and stop over thinking it.
Although maybe its just cos I live in England, but I can't imagine it being radically different in the US like you make out, anyway this article just annoyed me.
Racist and not necessarily so
What utter racist nonsense. And for all those times that blacks blatantly disrespect people of other races? I'm betting you feel no bother with that. How would it be taken if you walked out of a club to see a white person kicking and punching a poster of a black man? If a white does something offensive, it's considered racism. If a black (or other "ethnicity") does the same, it's racial heritage and pride. What it is is hypocrisy, and teaching generations of children to nurture hate in their hearts.
My preferred medium of dance is tribal fusion bellydance, and other than one notable dancer - Ebony - most black belly dancers are terrible when compared with white dancers, graceless, choppy, and clunky. Apparently they don't get the idea of communing with an audience (of mixed races?) to express emotion.
Sorry, you lost me when you
Sorry, you lost me when you started categorizing "black american" or "club" dancing as some desirable thing. All people look like complete idiots when they dance. The whole perception of black people being able to dance and white people not being able to comes more from the fact that whites have historically only allowed blacks to hold certain positions in society (a la Booker T Washington's misguided nonsense), predominantly in the entertainment industry. As with any group forced into/limited to certain strict avenues for "success", blacks have come to dominate a good percentage of that industry, dance, in particular, because it is a self-"taught" "skill" that offers people can't be excluded from developing. The point is, nobody dances "right" or "cool". Everyone looks stupid dancing and besides certain very limited benefits of release of (if you want to stretch) "expression", it is a completely ridiculous thing in general. So couple the fact that the examples of dancing you see out there are overwhelmingly in one style from one group (which has become known to be "better" at it) with the whole trend towards clubs in cities (which is, at best, on the level of the average middle school dance in terms of societal value, development, and even socializing, but then sprinkle in a buch of drugs and booze and people with nothing better to do than hang out in a dark room with terrible music at 4 AM, big surprise people get shot at clubs...oops i digress) and there you have it. Not the most well worded response but i do have other things to do.
Look at it this way: even the most universally accepted style, norm, or tradition will look out of place when moved to a different time or culture. It's all about perception. A touchy but somewhat parallel comparison would be how white people feel about people who speak in ebonics. We can't say it's wrong, and as we are forced to observe, it has roots and history of its own, but it just sounds terribly stupid because it's not in line with what how the majority of educated people speak (black or white). Not entirely analogous, but hopefully you get the idea. Now quit dancing around and complaining and go DO something for the world.
This is all very wrong :/
I am yes you guessed it.. White. I'm goin to state a point here, you speak of this as if it's every single White person who has ever walked the face of the earth can't dance. I find this extremely racist and totally unfair. I have danced since I was 7 years old and I'm now nearly 16, so while all the other kids at my school were listening to their pop music, I was way too interested in hip hop music and R&B and enjoyed that much more, to this day it's all I listen to and I have been told by many people including black people that I have rhythm, and they have found it extremely unusual because my skin colour was White. I am English but I am half Irish and have Spanish blood in me. As I might agree in some points of your argument, like SOME White people can't dance, even I see that, but some can. So I find this extremely racist and unfair. So if your goin to throw insults like this in our faces atleast do it with dignity and make sure you know what your talking about. All you need to do is go to Manchester in England and watch the dancers my age, everywhere you go there is blatant pure talent, so before you respond to my comment everyone, just think to yourself are you only saying this because you don't think we can dance or even you yourself cant dance or are you just saying it because you have never witnessed or went to the right places to look for us? I have full respect for people with a different skin colour to mine, so no one can say my comment is racist. All I'm sayin is, dancing used to be about having fun, letting out your emotion through you movements, feeling the music through mind and soul, dancing to the music you loved the most, now all it's about is people trying to prove themselves to others, and people not getting a fair chance at what they love, I myself am tryin to make a profession out of the thing I love to do the most, whilst studying my GCSE's so for me it isn't about proving myself to the people who dislike me, it's about doing what I love and not caring what others think because it is what I have wanted my whole life.
True
This is completely true. I am not racist at all infact im dominican, and what i have experienced is black or spanish people have seen a few bad white dancers and just assumed that all white people are bad dancers because its "in their jeens" i think it is complete nonsence.
She specifically states
She specifically states at the beginning that it would be ridiculous to completely lump every white or black person in to their respective categories. Also she says many times that she is speaking specifically about American culture. She doesn't give a shit about Manchester, and neither do I. You clearly don't know what racism is. Racism involves hate and at no point did she say she hated white people. You should not be offended by this. It's not the slightest bit racist. I do think it's a little bit insane how she flipped out at the white man poster, but I can understand her frustration. I agree that the vast majority of whites are really bad at dancing, especially men. My friends are just terrible. I think it really is just about rhythm and moving with the beat. Respecting dance is easy after that. I disagree with her that understanding black culture is imperative to being a good dancer. She's just flat out wrong about that. All though it might help my fellow whites if they aren't naturals.
Re: comment
To whoever it may concern. OK maybe Racist is a bit strong of a word for saying that "white men" can't dance but as long as whites believe this they will never want to dance.
I am assuming you are writing from Manchester, England but than again I could be wrong.
Letme mention two things. First I completely agree with you in general blacks are perceived as better dancers by myself included. White men are not the best dancers. In the shaking and grooving context of a club you are correct. However there are exceptions to the rule and that was what I was trying to convey. There are some "whites" that might dance better than you should a contest occur and the judges were your peers and were represented by an equal mix of whites and blacks, men and women. The sociologist who put this "project" set me straight about that.
And I would also agree that in general singing, rapping and any art form that comes from African-American culture OR African-European culture. But I would argue that Enimem is the exception to the rule and just because he is white shouldn't mean he can't use a more "black" art genre to express himself. Just like I think a black should be able to express him or herself using a more white genre like classical music.
I will say one thing,I tend to take someone of any race, color or creed less seriously if they have to call me an idiot to make a point. However you still are entitled to have the opinion that of an idiot in this context. It may look like a great way to convince others to agree with you but it has never worked for me. And all races are guilty of this practice just as many of all races are innocent.
So even though you may still disagree with me, I appreciate that you took the time to state your opinion in your attempt to set me straight on the matter. I think dance is a great way to express oneself or express the pattern of another.
:)
new message for an old post
Found this article while searching for Adrian Piper's work on teaching funk dance moves to white people. check it out amazing artist who's work i love love love.
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2010/07/27/adrian-pipers-funk-lessons&view=comments
anyhow- After being sucked in by this essay i have to add my piece. I think this essay is great!
Even if you don't agree with the writer's perspective it's definitely enlightening. For me emotional ethnography= awesome.
I do think that this writer assumes a lot about the white people (and people in general) around them . However, it's from their perspective so that's how it's gonna be. The only thing I take real issue with is the tone that assumes that everyone's attention in the room was centered on the writer and the writer's friend. Unless it's a party for said person/people I'm not sure why everyone would be centered on them? I don't know the age of the writer but this running idea makes them seem either very young or very vain.
When I go out dancing I am almost always absorbed in my own body and circle of friends. I don't particularly care if others think I'm "good" at dancing or not- Perhaps that's because I know I'm not a good dancer (decent maybe but certainly not "good"). But I'm not all that into watching other people.
I absolutely do not think that sub-par dancers have no right to share the floor in a club (which seems implied here for sure)
While I also think people should try to give other dancers space I feel everyone should also stand their ground about being on the floor to have a good time. This problem also occurs at concerts big time I hate when you find good spot and someone else squeezes in ;(
Anyhow I fell like dancing is about enjoying being in one's own body. There is a lot of self-consciousness around dancing and I think that is beautifully expressed here. This is perhaps why I love this piece so much: it proposes awareness and consideration of others in a location where self-consciousness and emotion are high. One last thing I do have to say: if that stuff about a stranger asking them to dance and physically pushing them is seriously true all I have to say is OUT OF CONTROL!! NO WAY IS THAT OK. DO NOT COERCIVELY PUSH STRANGERS...EVER! this is not a white thing this is a drunken rude thing. and a bazaar one at that?!?
This is one of the more
This is one of the more enlightened responses I have seen to this essay in its overall tone and appreciation for what was said.
However, this response seems to miss the same basic points that many of the others have done. The original author repeatedly emphasizes the main point, stated at the beinning and the end:
"Dancing is a language (in the way we think of, respond to and through language). Its movements are its words and its grammar is its rhythm."
And again at the end:
"... be aware that (black) dancing has a grammar"rules of engagement."
To paraphrase, dancing is a form of interpersonal communication in black culture. It is not just entertainment, not just a way to release tension, certainly not a playground for people to turn loose of civilized restraint and act aggressively when they are drunk. It is a form of communication, and it is important. The dance floor is, if you will, a forum for communication.
Perhaps an analogy might help clarify this main point. By comparing other forums of self-expression and communication that are commonly recognized in white culture, perhaps it will help us to better understand that main point that the essay's author tried so hard to get across. What other forms of communication and self-expression could we use as comparisons? The first one that springs to mind would be a poetry reading, commonly called a poetry slam. These events are typically informal, or semi-formal, and they commonly take place in bookstores. I have read my own poetry in them, and I have listened to others read their poetry. They can be powerful emotional experiences, especially when listening to someone from a rural culture on the other side of the globe recite poetry about what daily life is like there. So as my first analogy, I am picturing myself back at one particular poetry slam that I especially enjoyed. It took place in a church. My attention was riveted on one particular poet whose poem described - you guessed it - daily life in a village on the other side of the globe. If another poet had jumped up on the stage and started excitedly reciting her own poetry alongside the poet who had the stage, I would have been highly annoyed - not least due to the fact that I feel some ownership there because that particular poetry group was named from a line in one of my own poems. (It was the "Nekkid Muse" Poetry Group, from a line that went: "That's when tha Muse is nekkid, Bubba / Tha Muse is Nekkid.)
Take it a step further. Let's say that I politely asked the person interrupting the poetry reading to get back down off the stage, and let the poet continue reading her work - and the interrupter reacted by humping the reader's thigh. Would I have considered that a trivial thing? By no means. At that point, I'd have started to consider calling the cops.
Let's take a more well-known example - an Thursday evening open mike night at a local cafe. If I get up to share my work and some drunken rich frat boy comes staggering up to the microphone and decides to pick that moment to sing a "duet" with me. I stop playing, ask him to leave the stage, and he humps my leg. Do I take my guitar case an introduce it to his head? Or do I merely wait til I'm on the bus home and punch a poster?
But it doesn't even have to be open mike night. Suppose I'm just sitting somewhere, on a sidewalk or a park, or even a quiet corner of some college campus. I'm singing and playing a song that means something to me, and maybe I'm by myself, or maybe I have a friend with me. I'm just getting into the song, and a drunken Southern politician's pretty boy son picks that moment to intrude, open up his voice, and sing a duet to a song he doesn't even know.
Would that be rude? Yes. Would I react? Probably not, since that is not all that uncommon. My grandfather even told a story about a fight breaking out when he was playing, and a drunk coming and falling all over him.
He hit him over the head with his banjo.
But anybody who's ever played & sang in public informal venues knows the likelihood of being interrupted, either by well-meaning clods with no voices, or by ill-meaning clods come to poke fun at something they do not understand. If that happened to me - and it has - I would be all right with it. It's part of life.
Until some bumbler comes up and humps my leg.
I have compared dancing in black culture to two other forms of communication more commonly understood in white culture. Now let me see if I can bring this back to the author's original point now. I will presume upon the essay author's good graces to try substituting one form of communication and self-expression for another.
"Poetry is a language (in the way we think of, respond to and through language). Its metaphors are its words and its grammar is its meter."
And again:
"... be aware that folk music singing has a grammar and "rules of engagement."
My point here is to try to bridge a communication gap I perceive between the author's stated intention and misapprehension on the part of some readers. Whether or not I have succeeded, I hope that at least I have not offended anyone.
I will end with a final positive comment on the most recent response written here: nicely done.
- Paul
Great Article
I am white and I think this article is great and brutally honest which I admire. I myself cannot dance well and I always wondered why. I am also more geared towards math and philosophy and things of that nature where I noticed I can articulate myself and express myself better than most black people I meet. This article is great because it identifies all the variables that the normal brainwashed politically correct fool would think of as heretical, like race, cultural, and biology. We evolved different so it makes sense that black people are better at things like dancing and sports. I just wonder why they can't admit white people are smarter and have a more evolved intellect? It's not like we are going to abuse, oppress, and subjugate you guys again. Acknowledging race helps guide people to the place in life where they will feel more comfortable. This article is a real step towards acknowledging a racial reality.
lol no...
you are totally WONG lmfao. im a dancer, im white, im not good at math and i dont like school... i know some really SMART african americans that could care less about dancing and they have different interests... it doesnt matter what race you are, its all about APTITUDES... you agree with this article because it relates to you....and what you know from YOUR experiences... so your just being ignorant... there is a HUGE world out there hun, and if you took time away from your homework and school work to realize this, you wouldnt be so ignorant to this subject... white people ARENT "smarter" than other races... Japan is WAY more technologically advanced than the U.S.A... you're just making yourself look ignorant, and quiet racist..
answer to John - Whites more evolved
Yes White people are smarter and have a more involved brain. At least that's what the propaganda would say. And it's done a pretty good job at it. Naturally the same propaganda will omit to say who gave higher math to the Europeans.
A truly superior mind has no need to put you down enslave.
If anything it wants to dialogue.
ummm im black or jamaican and
ummm im black or jamaican and im very good at sports and dance but also im very good at math and physics. i kno alot of white people and i have tested them i went to a highschool physics test and im only 13 in the 7th so not all black people are not as smart as white people
I really hope this is
I really hope this is sarcasm. But... I honestly can't tell.
Oh god. Please let this be
Oh god. Please let this be sarcasm
This is racist i dance with
This is racist i dance with some of my black friends i did grow up in a primarily black community father was black my ma was white i happen to be white and look veeeery white but still color doesn't make a difference it's just if you want to have fun or if you're gunna be racist and try to distance yourself.
i hear you and feel you. but
i hear you and feel you. but you have no right to tell anyone how they process their emotional stuff. white is no less an artificial construct than black. i know the moral burden is on white people,the middle passage did not go in the other direction. however, and i am latino[a term frought with its own problems] i don't feel that white people who want to challenge this construct[whiteness] are ever really given a fair chance by people of color. if someone wants to chalenge their whitness,who the hell are you or anybody else to put limitations and reprimands on their perspective. whites are patronizing day in and day out towards others. do you really think treating them the same way,even when they,the few that are,are struggling with their privledge is a sane way of operating? come on man. don't be a hypocrite. too many people of color can't deal with white people who are real and struggling,because it shatters the easy and insidious ilussion that all whites are devils. if you don't have an automatic waste bin for a people,it forces you to see the uncomfortable truth that one cannot summarilly dissmiss a whole group of people because it makes you feel empowered. even when the historical and present cultural ethos of white people screams hate. you cannot put everyone in that category.
Agan, Shayna, thank you for
Agan, Shayna, thank you for being bold enough to share your experiences publicly.
White Europeans have a disturbing tendency to be ignorant of our own culture, and in particular, the great cultural divide that occurred in the wake of 17th century French philosopher Rene Descartes. Descartes' influence is summarized nicely in a Wikipedia article that says Descartes "... has been dubbed the "Father of Modern Philosophy", and much of subsequent Western philosophy is a response to his writings."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Descartes
That one statement shows Descartes as one of those rare individuals who not only sat in the Ivory Tower and wrote for his peers, but actually influenced the society and culture surrounding him.
Descartes, among other things, championed the concept of duality. Western culture followed in his wake, embracing with faith the notion that mind and body are different and separate things. If that notion is true, then "dancing" and "thinking" are two entirely different things - almost polar opposites.
While that divide has become incorporated as an automatic, unconscious assumption that is woven into the fabric of Western European culture, other cultures do not share the same belief in separateness. Some other cultures are able to see thinking, dancing, praying, art, music, and poetry as all part of the same thing, and move with graceful fluidity from one such activity to the other. That is a challenge for members of Western Euro culture.
Similarly, Shayna's article is a challenge, because it indirectly points out our cultural blind spot and forces us to face it. Some of us can face it, whereas others of us feel threatened with the idea that we even have cultural blind spots. Some of the anger visible in this thread results directly from the fact that a blind spot cannot see itself. Consequently, some readers flail about in desperate attempts to categorize Shayna, her essay, her thoughts, and her feelings into some pigeonhole or another, as "racism," as "bitterness," or as one thing or another. Categories often miss the essence of a thing.
A couple of decades ago I expressed that concept in a poem that starts out with the following lines:
categorize, close your eyes,
rock yourself to sleep
my gentle brother another
Tin Man
While continuing to live as the Tin Man in the culture of separation we inherited from Descartes, we cannot grasp the essence of what Shayna has said to us here. Shayna is gently inviting us to take off the blinders we inherited from Descartes. But we don't have to do that. No one does. We have the choice to keep wearing them, if we find them comfortable and reassuring enough. Part of individual freedom is that we can make the choice to remain locked up in the Iron Maiden of our blind spot if we want to. Alternately, we can choose to learn from members of cultures that do not embrace Descartes as a philosophical pillar or allow him to function as the Pied Piper for our beliefs.
One of the benefits of education is that we are given the opportunity to look at ourselves through the lens of other cultures. When we do, we can see ourselves as shaped by a culture of materialism, acquisitiveness, ego-bound individuality, and living inside our own heads with a resultant level of isolation that our own sociology describes frighteningly well. High schools in America are focused on training workers for the job force, as as such, they teach us to keep coloring within those lines and never to vary. For those of us who aspire to more than fitting comfortably into the tasks some foreman assigns to us, however, we owe it to ourselves to stop, look, and listen. Descartes' traffic may be headed our way.
NOT a Good Topic
NOT a Good Topic, I'm Chinese I dont wanna say too much, I'm sure there were alot of misunderstanding.
the best solusion for you to aviod another problem like this night:
1. is to talk it though. say it out, instead of looking at them strangely,
2.DO NOT BE A person who always guesses. ask it out.
Get real
Most of the very finest dancers in the world are Caucasian baryshnikov astaire etc. The only really good black dancer I can think of was Michael Jackson, he was a very fine dancer. I have two black male friends that refuse to dance for the most part. (I dance about 3 nights a week). One claims he has no rythm the other just isnt interested and dates a dance teacher friend of mine.
I think the only reason many whites don't or won't dance is only because of articles like this that tell them they cannot, shouldn't don't know how or are genetically/spiritually unable and yes you are racist and ignorant of the multitude of dance culture.
The Electric Slide? Dancing in a mirror? Hardly examples of great dance. But if that is all you can it is good. I do both very well.
Try joining a social dance group and dance Salsa, Cha Cha, Merengue, Waltz, EC Swing, WC Swing, Jitterbug, NC 2 step, 2 step and freestyle and more with 5+ different partners of different ages and skills for hours on end and you will learn what it means to dance and connect to others and the dance.
But most importantly have fun and quit making a racial problem out of your supposed superiority in the mirror and the slide.
You are equating dance with
You are equating dance with professionalism, which seems to indicate you don't understand the "language" that she is referring to in the article. Sure there are professional dancers of all races and ethnic groups. There are talented "performing" dancers in any race. As for black ballet dancers, ever heard of Arthur Mitchell, Carlos Acosta, Carmen Lavallade? Modern dancer, Alvin Ailey? And many others. But that is western concert dance and not what the article is addressing, which is social dance. You are making it about "merit" rather than the interaction that happens between people. The point is that many white people do not grow up with dance in their homes or families. They have to go take "classes" in order for them to learn to dance. This is not really because they can't dance, but because their culture has not valued it in a social context, but rather only in a professional (and even that's debatable) and performance context. It's not about who can perform better, who has had the most training. It's actually not just African and African-diaspora cultures--there are other cultures in which dance is part of your life from early childhood. But that is not the case with many white Americans. This is why many white American people feel that they cannot dance or that they need to take classes. They didn't grow up with it as part of their home and family life.
Also, I don't think there are many whites who are intimidated by articles like this and decide not to go dancing. If so they need to get some counseling so that they can believe in themselves.
challenging, possibly bigoted, but interesting
I freely admit I cannot dance, drives my wife nuts. Sometimes late at night, after working on a paper, I'll search for articles on dancing, fear of dancing, etc. Your article came up in one search.
I've heard the description of dance as language before, I still don't get it. Instead of simply stating it as a fact examining that claim would have been more helpful.
The attitudes described (by all parties at the club) and expressed by you certainly sound bigoted. Perhaps black/white or dancer/non-dancer. I suspect a valuable point or observation has been lost in the anger and prejudice evidenced in the article and the comments.
people can learn the rhythm
people can learn the rhythm of dance mentally... but the body may not be able to represent the mind...
Beautiful anology
Thank you so much, for truly defining what dance means to us of African Heritage.
All this time me and my friends spend in love with dancing, and releasing energy, and reassuring ourselves through dance.
I never realised what we were doing was communicating.
You have truly defined dance for us who are away from the motherland and have forgotten the essence of this beautiful thing we do.
I was looking at a silly Las
I was looking at a silly Las Vegas-based magazine yesterday and noticed a group of dancers onstage in an ad. There was one black guy and 5 white dudes, all doing the *same* move. I'll admit to having scrutinized the difference between the two types of expression and thinking "Wow, even in a still photo the black guy seems more expressive and powerful."
Let's be honest-we are not talking about black and white dance styles and cultures. We are talking about good and bad dancers. White American club *dancing* is very influenced by african american culture, and has been since Ragtime, or before. Yes white people have their ethnic dances too, but I haven't square-danced (Irish/German based) since I was in the Girl Scouts and that was with my Dad. African-based specifically Afro-American expression is the envy of the world and those who mock (not mimic) are only feeling their envy a little too much. I believe most white people I know feel the stereotype is true, although there many exceptions of course. It may be something people in other areas of the country (more segregated with longer history of settlement, like Philly) are embarrassed by and or are angry at themsleves for not having the same expressive abilities as the minority, or the luck to have grown up in a culture which nurtures these instincts, I don't know. I'm from Los Angeles. People here are a little more able to laugh at themsleves and stereotypes, while acknowledging they exist, I feel. If you expreience this overt envy, don't stand for it. But please, don't be as thin-skinned as these people. From the incidents you pointed to, it seems what you are offended by is bad taste and or lack of coordination, and drunken manners, my dear. Don't judge white culture and know that this includes drinking MORE as a way of trying hard to loosen up--something not easy for them to do especially with all these mixed messages flying about from people who feel perpetually slighted. Have pity or at least patience! You sound like a French douchebag who hates when foreigners, esp. English speakers, try to speak French--it's not good enough unless you're a native. Similar to you, the hatred's raison d'etre is the dominance of the supposedly offending culture over theirs, hence a fierce defensive strategy to mainatain purity of their own culture. Mimicry, when you experience it, is a compliment. Learn how to recognize it and take it graciously. When you do this, it gives the *student* a chance to learn and only then can they create a fresh take on it you (might) respect. First Pidgin, then Creole language. Hello metaphor! It happens when two cultures meet, I'm sorry if you like your language to be pure and untainted by students of it, but this world is tooo crowded to have it happen that way. No...there cannot be just a white culture and a black culture, black dance, white dance. They have to mix or one will suppress the other. Ever studied the Brown vs Board of Education Supreme Court decision? 'Separate but Equal' doesn't work. Now you're trying to bring it back by asking for space on the dance floor for blacks but feeling offended by the white girl because she stumbles. She stumbles because you are inexplicably disgusted with her, poor girl! Let her do her thing, how else will she learn?GIVE and take what it good from the other cultures, and tolerate, within reason, the bad. Peace and tolerance!
Ooh, honey you let her have
Ooh, honey you let her have it honey. I do understand her point of view on the white people not understanding her language strategies(dancing). I didnt think about the points that you brought up though and i do agree with you. You cant have zero tolerance for people and if they are trying to mimick(not mock) you because they want to do the same move, then thats all you can ask for, thats respect in itself. I happen to be latino and grew up dancing and iim a natural dancer. I`ve been to nightclubs and parties where i was the minority and people were pushing each other all over the place. I mean, the club she said she went to is called Sisters, which is a gay club and im guessing a lesbian club from the name, maybe the lesbians were on their period that night and felt extra pushy(just kidding). Seriously though, i live in Philly now but recently lived in NY and i have been to many many clubs throughout the whole tri state area and lack of personal space are things you have to expect if youre going to a nightclub which is where people "let their hair down". She cannot pretend that the African American community as a whole are shy people(im generalizing here), if theyre at a nightclub and they feel theyre being disrespected or secluded as a group they WILL say something about it and stop it. Its not like anyone(especially in the nightclub scene) is going to put up with nonsense if it happens, so i think she was exagerating a little bit when she said the black people gave up and thats probably why they were on the sidelines, thats ridiculous. Anyway, i like what you had to say and your comparisons, very well said. Camilo
I am like the white girl who dances and doesn't understand.
Reading this, I find truth, and things I disagree with. What I really want to know, is how can I be expected to learn to dance with you, if, while you're taking over the dance floor, you won't give me a hand, allow me to be a part of what you're doing.
I have grown up in a very culturally hemogonous area. Read: White as all get out. But that doesn't mean I'm not passionate about learning about different cultures. I'm a bad dancer, who recently joined an ethnic dance club at my school. It's been exciting to dance with people who have this ability to flow into moves that I expect to see only on television. But there's always the distinction: I'm white.
And so, when I watch people teach other's the moves, they always skim over me. They don't wait for me to get it right, or help me as much when I get it wrong. I keep my mouth shut most of the time, or stick to praising everyone else, but I can't help but wonder.
How will I learn to respect you, and understand you, if you won't teach me the language?
That being said, I really identified with your angry reaction at the poster. There's a constant guilt that hangs around me, because I'm part of a magority. I'm constantly having to PROVE that I'm not going to attack someone for their race. I remember once situation, sitting in a room that had a lot of African American and Latino kids. I was a serious white majority. Everyone was talking and laughing, and I was enjoying listening to the different conversations, the different rythms of speach, but I sure as hell didn't try to join in. Every now and then someone would look over at me, as if to say, what's that WHITE girl doing here? Is she judging me?
How can we interact if every interaction is filled with fear? It makes me not want to go out on the 'dance floor'
Another note: White people, in our society of political correctness, aren't ALLOWED to value whiteness. In fact, there's always a little voice inside of me that's ASHAMED of being white, because it means that somewhere along the line, MY people have been involved in hate crimes, slave trading, etc. Never mind that ALL cultures and colors have been guilty of this. In our current culture, the man is me. (disregaurding the fact that I'm female, it isn't important in this instance)
What I really want to know, is how I can find a happy medium, where I'm comfortable enough to 'mimic' without insulting, where my bad dancing isn't made fun of, but rectified, and where we can talk in two different languages , dance two different styles, but understand each other perfectly.
I'm one of the electric slide dancers
(I like how you formatted your reply. :) )
I'm an african american male, just figured I'd acknowledge this in an effort to further dismantle preconditioning and misconceptions of the black man. I understand your reasoning and frustration as I am engaged to a beautiful girl of caucasion decent; I see her in similar situations and we have talks regarding this two-sided issue routinely. Nice interpretation of dancing being more than just a physical act of recreation, but a conversation consisting of a distinct language between individuals of similar foundations; this language also being portrayed as representative of our culture as a whole. What you must do is both difficult yet simple and practical. One can't simply dive into more advanced social environments(large conversations, electric slides, etc.), you must do as the author said and go to the root. First realize we are the same, just different influences... both started as clay, just resulted in different ceramic masterpieces constructed of different artists. Then you gain security in that "yes, I'm white, but I'm a person, and enjoy socializing regardless of race" so you don't speculate of us wondering why you're there when in reality, we may be simply wondering why you're so quiet. Its your subconscious and insecurities that cause you to feel this way. Finding peace with yourself and ceasing to feel distinguished is the first step. Then you will gain an appreciation for us and this will quickly snowball into you being one of us. It isn't like a club where you do X,Y,Z to be accepted, much more of a breaking down of tensions. When you loose site of media induced differences, you will find comfort in yourself, as well as within social situations.