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Developing and Overcoming Antisocial Personality Disorder

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Biology 202
2002 Third Paper
On Serendip

Developing and Overcoming Antisocial Personality Disorder

Shannon Lee

Personality disorders are among the most difficult disorders to be diagnosed and treated in psychology. The highly ingrained behaviors of the disorders, the difficulty in differentiating between normalcy and illness, and the patients lack of understanding and excepting their symptoms as abnormal, are all contributing obstacles of the disorder.

Personality is shaped by experiences during childhood and adolescence as well as genetics. Therefore, children that develop mental disorders are more likely to develop personality disorders as adults. Conduct disorder in children has been highly linked to the development of antisocial personality disorder in adults. The DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) suggests, but does not require, a history of conduct disorder when making an antisocial personality diagnosis (1). Not only is there a high correlation between people having the disorders, but conduct disorder seems to be a preliminary childhood manifestation of the same underlying malfunctions that are characteristic of the adult disorder, antisocial personality disorder. When looking at the development and causes of antisocial personality disorder it is important to note the symptoms, characteristics, and circumstance of conduct disorder as well.

Conduct disorder, a childhood behavior disorder described by the DSM, is characterized by chronic misbehavior. The children and adolescence often participate in serious physical fighting, alcohol and drug abuse, violation of parental and school rules, vandalizing and setting fires, and many other antisocial behaviors. These children, unless adequately treated, have a 50% rate of becoming involved with drugs and criminal behavior during adolescence. They also have a 75%-85% rate of being chronically unemployed as adults. Many of these children, about 40%, grow up to have antisocial personality disorder (2).

Antisocial personality disorder is a Axis II DSM recognized disorder under the personality disorder category that has earned separation from the acute psychological disorders of Axis I. This is the most common disorder among the personality disorders: between 2.3%-3.3% of the population is diagnosed some time in their lives, it crosses all ethnicity's, and is five times more commonly diagnosed in males than in females. The main symptoms of this disorder are, a tendency to develop maladaptive behaviors that diverge or violate from societal norms, and they have a severe difficulty developing and keeping positive relationships. The characterization of antisocial personality disorder is very similar to that of conduct disorder, but the symptoms are manifested in different ways. These people tend to be cold, uncaring, and can be maliciously cruel at times. They feel very little guilt for their actions, believing they are always faultless. They will often pretend to care and be pleasant until they succeed in getting what they want. They often have extreme personality traits of arrogance, impatient, low tolerance of frustration, and poor impulse control. These characteristics are transient and chronic, often effecting the individual, their family, and the community negatively (3).

The poor impulse control, lack of patience, and uncaring attitude, cause the people with the disorder to have trouble staying in relationships such as marriage. They have difficulty staying employed and doing anything that requires a routine. This extreme personality characteristics is related to criminal activity, violent death due to extreme daring behavior, and suicide attempts (3).

When analyzing this disorder one is likely to wonder, what causes the symptoms of the disorder to develop and how, if at all, the disorder can be overcome? What factors are responsible for 2.3%-3.3% of the population developing these abnormal characteristics and personality extremities to the point of being "disordered?" After much thought and consideration of argumentative suggestions for different causes of the disorder, I have come to the conclusion that it is due to a variation of three main influential factors.

The first influential factor to be discussed that is important in the development of personality disorders, such as conduct disorder and antisocial disorder, is genetic and biological contributions and characteristics that make certain people more likely to develop this disorder than others. There have been many studies done that show ample support for genetic influence in the development of antipersonality disorder. These studies show that criminals with antisocial personality have criminal records more like their biological fathers than their adopted fathers, which supports that the disorder runs in families. Also twins that are identical have a 50% concordance rate of the development of the disorder, as opposed to only a 20% concordance with twins that are not identical (4).

Hormones and neurotransmitters also play a vital role in supporting the biological connection with the disorder. The disordered displaying symptoms of impulsivity and aggression have naturally lower levels of adrenaline in their blood when calm and excited. Adrenaline is a hormone released in higher amounts when the sympathetic system responds to excitable stimuli, such as anxiety, pressure, danger, and joy. Possibly, the variance of this hormone attributes to some symptoms showed by the disordered. The lack of adrenaline, stimulation, might cause the disordered to becomes easily bored and attempt to seek thrills by more dangerous and extreme measures in order to obtain arousal and excitement. This lower hormone concentration also supports reasoning for antisocial and dangerous behavior, because one who is not as stimulated in dangerous situations with fear and anxiety, would feel less aversion to initiating and participating in these situations (5).

Neurotransmitters such as serotonin have been targeted in connection with the disorder. Higher levels of serotonin in the blood have been found in correlation with antisocial personality types. Newborns with a family history of antisocial personality disorder have lower levels of serotonin in the brain at birth than normal infants (AJP CSF). Other findings have also shown that there is decreased serotonin functioning in those with antisocial disorder and those who have high susceptibility to the disorder, but further studies are being done to try and understand the dysfunction (6).

About 60% of children with ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) also develop conduct disorder, and then many of these people go on to develop antisocial personality disorder (1). There are neurological differences in the brains of those with ADHD, deficits in executive functioning. The high comorbidity suggests that there are also differences in the brains of those who develop the personality disorders. Both those diagnosed with ADHD and the personality disorders have a primary deficit in the ability to control impulsiveness and behaviors, which also suggests that the neurological problem may be the same for all of the disorders.

Although, personality disorders are the most difficult of the psychological disorders to treat, there are certain methods used and others in progress by the scientific world today. To treat the biological symptoms, such as low levels of serotonin and the high comorbidity found with ADHD, medications are often prescribed. The most effective drug so far for the disorder is lithium, which decreases the impulsively and hyperactivity of the disordered. Stimulants such as Adderall can be given to treat similar symptoms, and they also increase concentration levels. These drugs have only been approved for treating those with ADHD diagnosis. Antidepressive drugs, such as MAOIs and SSRIs that influence serotonin levels, are starting to be used in the treatment of the disorder. Their efficacy has not been proven to be sufficiently so far by scientific studies (3).

A second influential factor in the development of conduct disorder and antisocial disorder is environmental factors. Psychosocial contributions to the development of these disorders have been supported in numerous studies. Children are heavily influenced from birth and are products of their environment. They learn social skills and coping mechanisms from parental example. Children who have uninvolved parents and that already have genetic predisposition's for the disorders, are more likely to develop antisocial characteristics. Children who have parents that are alcoholic or drug abusers are more likely to be substance abusers themselves. The families with substance abuse have also been found to have poor functioning compared to normal families, and therefore, more children who become disordered. The highest rate of disordered children comes from families that have an antisocial parent that is also a substance abuser (7).

Other environmental contributors to the development of the disorders are teacher and peer groups of the child (3). ADHD is also a good example of supporting environmental influence as well as biological influence. Children with ADHD often have trouble in school because of lack of impulse control and attention span. They are loud and get into trouble, which leads to punishment by the teachers and unpopularity among the other students. This environmental factor furthers the development of even more extreme antisocial behavior, fighting and skipping school, and eventually many of these children are diagnosed with conduct disorder.

Treatment of environmental factors involves attempting to reverse maladaptive cognitive thought developed due to experience. These maladaptive thought processes are very hard to tackle for the antisocial disorder, because a common symptom is the inability of those with the disorder to see their behavior as abnormal. Regardless, it has been found more helpful than not in improving some people with antisocial personality disorder. Treating children through these processes has been proven essential to overcoming the disorder and decreasing the prevalence of antisocial disorder developing later in life. Family counseling and intervention is very helpful as well for children. The maladaptive psychosocial environment can be changed so that the child experiences and learns positive social skills (8).

The third and final contributing factor to whether or not a person develops conduct and antisocial personality disorder, and whether they are able to overcome the disorders, is best described as the unique "I-function" of each individual (9). My comprehension of the I-function is fairly new and incomplete. I can best describe it as the manifestation of consciousness in each individual that is continuously and uniquely effected by the unconscious and unique connectivity's in the brain. The I-function is how one consciously makes decisions and solves problems, but it also is an outlet for all the unconscious products of the brain. I learned in, Dr. Grobstein's, neurobiology class at Bryn Mawr College about the existence of the I-function and about the uniqueness of every individual brain. If the differences in our brains allow for unique ideas and outlooks that make our experiences and ways of thinking unique as well, then I believe some brains can and do develop determination and a will to overcome the antisocial personality disorder, consciously implementing the decisions through the I-function.

Now one may ask how I plan to support the integrity of this rather alternative influential factor for these disorders. Although, I found many theories and studies supporting the importance of psychosocial and biological contributing factors in the development of conduct and antisocial disorder, I found little that answered my initial questions that made me take interest in researching this topic in the first place. These questions included, who overcomes these disorders when the odds are against them, and how do they overcome these other predisposition to antisocial disorders. The foundations of the disorders create a dim outlook because a primary characteristic of the disorder is the person's inability to realize or admit the abnormality of their behaviors. Therefore, it is often difficult to give the person adequate treatment, drugs or psychotherapy, for their symptoms.

I have decided to primarily support the third factor with the very case that struck my interest in the topic. There is a person that I have known all my life who developed conduct disorder by the age eight, worsening in severity of the disorder as he grew into adolescence. He was constantly in trouble and demonstrated nearly every characteristic of conduct disorder including, severe physical fighting, theft and vandalizing property, skipping school, lying, and violation of rules and law for thrills. He eventually did some drugs and became an alcoholic in his adolescence. He was nearly killed several times due to lack of fear and extreme thrill seeking. For instance, he sped at the highest possible speed down a road in the rain at night on a motorcycle. Losing control he hit a telephone pole, which caused him to break many bones in his body, almost killing himself. After several less severe offenses, he was playing with a gun and shot a girl in the head accidentally. The girl lived, stated it was an accident, so he went to jail for a minimal period still believing he just had "bad luck" as opposed to a disorder.

This person has a environmental history of being diagnosed with ADHD, and later antisocial disorder. He was also assumed to have had conduct disorder, although he was not diagnosed during childhood. He comes from a divorced family, with a paternal alcoholic and ADHD history, and had extremely low parental supervision. He was never physically abused in any way. His brain has not been tested for specific abnormalities, but he has many similarities to those that have abnormalities. He refused medication for ADHD, because he did not want to take it. He had severe inability to control impulse and hyperactivity, could not hold a job, and showed extreme low arousal during very disturbing situations.

During the time spent in jail, he somehow made a conscious decision to except the dysfunction of his actions. He then began taking a medication known as Effexor that decreases the re-uptake of serotonin, and is usually prescribed to depressed patients. Even though he was not diagnosed with depression, he claims the medication has been an incredible help to over coming certain symptoms of the disorder. It has decreased his impulsivity, severe temper, and aggression incredibly. He has reformed his way of thinking, treating others, and living life. He is now socially normal can hold a job, and has productive relationships.
From the understanding of antisocial personality disorder so far it seems to be primarily influenced by genetic and environmental causes. The various extremities of the influences highly determine if the third influence, which we will call the I-function, can save the person from the disorder. The genetic, is the most influential and permanent factor, while environment factors run a close second in importance during the development of the disorders. Finally, the I-function demonstrating every human's innate differences is influential if the other two factors are not extreme beyond repair.

If the person is so genetically prone to developing the disorders, with no biological capacity to understand or feel guilt, anxiety, or compassion, then there is little hope that drugs, or any amount of therapy will make the person normal or even safe to live among society. There is also little hope of the brain willing itself to heal if it cannot understand the problem. If there is genetic hope, but the person has consistent negative psychosocial experience due to extremely antisocial environments, then the person will probably not have much hope of overcoming the disorder, but probably more than the former example. I believe the unique I-function, and other differences in the brain that make one different, can possibly bring about determination, a conscious effort to overcome the disorder and predisposition's of genetics and environment influence. However, in cases such as conduct and antisocial personality disorder, the extremities of the other two contributing factors are key to the influence of the I-function.

In order to decrease the chance of a child with conduct disorder or a predisposition for personality disorders from developing antisocial disorder later in life, it is imperative that interventions be made to improve the quality of family functioning and reduce dysfunctional behavior. In order for the child to overcome genetic predisposition's and to learn to behave socially and successfully, the child must be set in a nurturing psychosocial environment and be given any medications that increase that child's ability to develop and function normally. Humans do have a degree of free choice because we are all genetically unique, but chances of escaping the disorders will increase with increased psychosocial and medical help.

The person I referred to earlier had neither early diagnosis of conduct disorder and refused medication for the treatment ADHD. He grew up in a environment that increased the chances of developing antisocial disorder and then did develop the disorder. He showed many symptoms of biological abnormalities. However, somehow he willed himself to change his outlook and began taking the initiative to heal himself. Through these attempts he has been successful at obtaining normalcy. I have learned that some brains have the capacity to heal themselves, but I still do not know what determines which brains make a conscious and unconscious effort to help themselves. This suggests that personal choice has a significant influence on one's ability to correct personality disorders. Along with psychosocial and medical help, these chances can only increase.

The further implications of the brain's ability to overcome genetic and environmental predispositions to disorders are much more important than the scope of this paper. This ability reinforces the idea that even though brain is behavior, brain is also uniquely powerful and creative. The man with antisocial personality disorder had a brain with the ability to overcome all it was accustomed to, in order to help itself adapt and survive.



1) "ADHD" , ADHD comorbidity with conduct and antisocial personality disorder
2) "Antecedents of Personality Disorders in Young Adults.", symptoms of personality disorders
3) "Treatment.", Different treatments for personality disorders
4) " Reworking Antisocial Personality Disorder.", biological characteristics of antisocial personality disorder
5) "The Neurobiology of Stress and Emotions.", hormone contributors to antisocial personality
6) "CSF 5-HIAA and Family History of Antisocial Personality Disorder in Newborns", article concerning the connection between serotonin and antisocial disorders
7) "Family Functioning and Peer Affiliation in Children of Fathers With Antisocial Personality Disorder and Substance Dependence: Associations With Problem Behaviors.", environmental factors related to the development of antipersonality disorders
8) " Aggression and Transference in Severe Personality Disorders.", characteristics of antisocial personality disorder
9) Serendip Website, I-function



Comments made prior to 2007

I liked reading about the thought that people with antisocail disorder can be helped in some way. My child has this problem and I was told that it was lost cause in someways to help him at all to be able to funtion in the world as he grew older. Thanks for the reading ... Jenny, 8 April 2006



I found your form to be very helpful. I see many of the symptoms in myself and have been diagnosed with APD in the past. I have not been on medication, but I am very withdrawn, I cant understand other peoples viewpoints, its hard for me to express how I feel, I dont care what other people think about me, and I'm so tired of being scared all the time. I do so many things so I wont have to be scared, I lift weights, I box, I dont even talk to anybody. I'm tired of this, and I want to be better. Can somebody please help me? ... Kevin Wright, 12 May 2006



I agree with genetic predisposition. I also believe that serotonin and thyroid, study in Sweden, play a role in antisocial. I have loved-ones, family, who suffer with this. I am about to research more indepth. Thyroid precipitates metabolism. The norepinephrine (adrenaline) is low, and the serotonin is low as well? That sounds very feasible, although adrenaline and serotonin could be imbalanced without the adrenaline being too high. There are so many ways to go with this. Please study study study. This is pervasive in society. Needs to be eradicated or at least some of symptoms allevaited to end suffering of those who cannot help the way their hormones/nerrotransmission goes. sry so sloppy ... Reader on the web, 17 February 2007


Serendip visitor's picture

Methylation imbalance

According to Walsh Research Institute, 95% of people with antisocial personality disorder are undermethylated (reference: Walsh, William J. Nutrient Power. New York: Skyhorse Publishing, 2012). And also most cases of OCD, anorexia, seasonal depression, schizoaffective disorder.

Serendip Visitor's picture

You need to proofread your

You need to proofread your work. Your grammar and spelling are terrible.

erwin mar callapa's picture

Always thinking negative about myself

This is my problem , I bought a new motorcycle then i put a recognizable stickers on it, then one of the husband of my co worker borrow it,then he used it to run in the community, then i afraid to my self and think im a thief when the time i ride my motorcycle in the community cause the people in the community saw another person riding on it....

Serendip Visitor's picture


I had reactive attachment disorder (RAD) as a child that has very similar or the same symptoms of ASPD but a child can heal from RAD. I healed from it.

Serendip Visitor's picture

Informative Article......But

This was a well-written document containing enough detail to properly understand the nature of this well-embedded disorder.

If anti-social generally describes an individual who is opposed to society, then what if someone simply avoids society/people/crowds while causing no violent acts and spending a lot of time alone. Is this similar enough to fall under the category of anti-social behavior or is there a better word for such a condition?

Concerned Mother's picture

17 year old daughter

I have a 17 year old daughter who is very shy, loving, feels things with her emotions, kind hearted, but does not know how to communiate with people at all. She does answer questions when asked in class, but does not speak loud very introverted. I worry because it makes her sad that she has no friends. I tell her that God and her family are her best friends, but I know she get really lonely. She talks with people on-line who live in other countries or far away states. They are all a year younger or 1 year older, but I worry that this might not be enough socialization, but it does make my heart happy to hear her laugh and actually talking to someone even though they are on a computer. Am I harming or hindering her social skills by allowing this?

Concerned Mother

An 18 year old girl's picture

Your sweet daughter

What kind of things does your daughter like? I was once like her but I once attended a Comic Convention when I was 13 and throughout the years I have made many friends while attending Comic conventions and anime conventions. Not only that, I have such a high sense of self worth after I was able to be around other people with the same interests as me.

Enough about me: is more than highly recommend getting your daughter tested for autism spectrum disorders or depression.

I'm here to talk

Lindsey pettitt's picture

Concerned mum

hI I have just read your post and everything
Thing you mentioned fits exactly what my daughter is going through/ feeling .infact I don't think she actually knows what she's feeling,she can't describe it? I Feel so sorry for her,she feels people are laughing at her,talking about her.shes very shy too and doesn't really talk that much in college .she called me from the toilets at college crying saying she wanted me to book her a doctors appointment.i just wanted to comment because my daughter sounds like yours.what do y intend to do ,and more importantly how is she now ?

Jim's picture

Why though?

Why would I, being highly narcissistic, highly antisocial, and often classed as a primary psychopath, want to overcome my personality?

Why would I want to "cure" myself when there's nothing wrong with me? Just because I don't let my emotions cloud my reasoning doesn't mean I'm a violent criminal.

Why do you assume that I would want to give up the advantages I have that let me succeed in life?

What's in it for me?

Serendip Visitor's picture

Why though?

What's in it for you is not getting shot or stabbed for being a donkey.
Your "success" comes at the expense of countless good hard working decent people. I know you dont care about hurting people just know there is a LOT of negative about your personality you refuse to observe. It's really the worst possible personality out there and people do a good job of not telling you on purpose just to watch you suffer.

Serendip Visitor's picture


maybe you're the donkey and it's just easier to say we are cause you'll never get to see this part of the human phsyche nor understand what it;s like not live in a bubble

JulesSerendip Visitor's picture


I hope this might help you,I'm 50 years old,I was born on the 29/11/1964 and two weeks ago I was diagnosed with a personality disorder,for the last 20 years I've been treated for depression.i have always known that it went deeper than that.i took an overdose 12 years ago and I could not see away out,I,ve phoned and been to the doctors more times than I can remember threatening to hurt people,I once nearly killed one of my friends and took myself to the police which they took me to the hospital,and they let me go,I was crying out for help,but could'nt get it.

Serendip Visitor's picture

My 11 year old son.

My 11 year old son Chris was diagnosed with ADHD when he was 5. A few years ago he was also diagnosed with a Severe behavioral problem. He is on 2 medications 3 times a day. He has some good days but a lot of bad ones. I also have a 14 year old daughter and a 4 year old son. He has been violent to both. Hitting,kicking and even body slamming and punching. He waits til I walk out of the room and then hits them. When I confront him about it he tells me that they are lying and always getting their way(which they are not). A few years ago my house caught on fire and we found out it was because he set it on fire in his room. He constantly lies and is unable to tell the truth( Literally about anything or anyone) He has taken a box cutter and slashed up my furniture and has scraped - I will kill your family on the side of our car. He has put holes in our walls and ceilings and destroys other peoples property. He has a hard time keeping friends and only wants to hang out with the"bad kids" (the thief's/liars ect) Then tonight during dinner I was talking to him and asked him why he was so mean and disrespectful and he told me flat out that he doesn't like any of us..... Do not know if there is anything I can do but I needed to vent.... Any ideas? Thank you in advance!

Serendip Visitor's picture

18 yr old Child with ASPD

I have read your comments and I am still so confused as to how to handle my child. He started acting out at 15 and of course I just thought it was the normal teenager stage. It continued and his symptoms got worse. Took him to a therapy where he was diagnosed with aspd. He has made our lives a living hell but I still love my son. I have cried many rivers but still dont know if I should just give up or keep trying. I try to rationalize now that he is 18 and grown but he still needs our help. He cant keep a job, goes from house to house, and ends up burning all his bridges due to his attitude. I feel bad that he is in this situation but has refused to let him come home due the major disruption he causes to my house hold. Sometimes I feel like I have failed as a mother and I keep trying to help him but I get disrespected and blamed for all his wrong doings. I just dont know what to do as a mother and even though he is out of my house now I still feel the burden of the road he is going down.

Can some of the mothers tell me how they have delt with these situations and what they suggest I do. I love my child and dont want to give up on him but I feel like his issues are causing me to have mini break downs sometimes and I just dont know if I can continue to go through...

tamara chase's picture

i have the same problem with

i have the same problem with my 18 year old son and he has to move out now because i cant take it i know how you feel.
and i think he has a personality disorder,but that is really hard to diagnose.

tamara's picture

I found they don't want to

I found they don't want to take people with that diagnose they don't get paid for it! i need help if any body has any suggestions of what to do would be helpful i think my sons also have bipolar with it .

Serendip Visitor's picture

Niacin helps bipolar

Niacin helps with bipolar depression. Can easily use 3,000-6,000mgs daily. Look up Dr. Andrew Saul's videos on nutrition and healing. Suggest non-flush niacin...

Serendip Visitor's picture


Hi I know how you feel my son acts out just he same as your child now 19 he gets no help from mental health services no one wants to deal with this diorder we are left to cry hurt pick up the prices when he as children I dread this because he will wreck there life's too chat any time if it helps

Serendip Visitor's picture

Attempting to end a relationship with adp husband

Hello, I happened upon this site and found myself consumed with reading all of the comments. Comforting to know that I'm not alone in dealing with this issue. Unfortunately I found out that my husband suffers from Adp after having 2 sons with him. They are 2 yrs and 8 months. My husband has not been formally diagnosed, but has all of the symptoms I have been able to find online. He currently is in rehab for drug addiction. (crack) The only reason being that I moved out of the house and shut off the utilities. I'm currently living with my parents who are very supportive. What is difficult, is that I have a very strong bond with his sister. This is making it difficult to ctut him off entirely which is what I long to do. He and I have been a couple for just 4 years this november. He is very manipulative and so I have limited my contact with him so far. He is a compulsive liar, and the final straw was "loaning" our families only vehicle to a drug dealer for $100 in dope. The dealer in turn sold the van for junk and it was crushed. This was the first time he had lended the vehicle out. He has always blamed his actions on the drug. However this is only a ploy of his to pacify me. He is a narcissist as well and does not geniunely believe that he is at fault and always blames others including myself. He has stolen from me. I literally have nothing remaining of value except for my children. But I almost lost them to the state due to his drug use, etc. I don't know what to do. He keeps asking me to write him which I do not want to do and he is still trying to reach me by phone. His sister has been taking the boys to visit him at the rehab every Sunday but I'm not even sure that this is the right thing to do. I really wish that he would dissappear so that I could reclaim my life 100%. But I know that this will nor happen because he going to try and use them to try to keep tabs on me. I have told him that it is over between us be he doesn't believe me since I have reconciled with him so many times in the past. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

mlk's picture

my 13 year old son

My 13 yr old step-son Austin is displaying many if not all of the symptoms for anti social personality disorder. His mother abandoned him and his 2 other brothers when Austin was 3 years old and my husband and i met when Austin was 4. I could always tell there was a difference in austins behaviors vs his older and younger brothers behaviors. Austin was diagnosed with ADHD when he started school but alot of his behaviors were seemed more difiance related than attention. Austin was abusive to his younger brother, lied about everything, and refused to follow rules. Instead of feeling bad for inflicting pain on his brother or neighborhood cats that he killed, Austin displayed fits of anger when he got caught doing these things and punished. "how dare you catch me or how dare you cry and tell mom and dad that i hurt you". Now Austin is 13 and his grades are terrible, his lying has reached all new heights that include saying his teachers are verbally abusing him in front of other students, or hustling our 80 year old neighbors out of $40 by lying and telling them that i am a single mother who is struggling and in need of money. When confronted by his teachers about the verbal abuse as a group (teacher, me and him) he tells teacher that I am the liar and that he never said what he said. When confronting the 80 year old neighbors, Austin says they are lying...Its never him. We really fear Austins next "story"..He has almost burnt our house down on more than 1 occasion, he destroys things that have meaning to whom ever makes him mad, and he has physically abused his brothers. My husband and I have since had 1 child together over the last 9 years who is 2 years old now. Austin loves to play with her however he easily gets carried away and ends up hurting his little sister but when he gets yelled at for being too rough he looks at her with pure hatred. The look is so terrifying that i actually bring her to my bed at night and lock our bedroom door. I do the same with his younger brother also when Austin hurts him. Austin has raised his fist to me when his dad was not home but acts like it never happened when he is confronted about it. If it were not for his other sibblings witnessing most of Austins actions i fear his father wouldnt even believe half the stuff that Austin does as Austin has his father fooled greatly. His dad always tries to see the good in everyone and Austin plays on that greatly and knows and says exactly what he knows his dad wants to hear. Truth is I'm terrified of what my son is turning into and not just terrified for him but also for his sibblings and myself. I never in a million years imagined myself as being a victim of my child but when it comes down to it, im locking myself in my bedroom at night because I'm terrified of waking up to him him standing over me...I truely fear this is coming and people who are close to our family have witnessed Austins behavior and warn me of what i fear the most. How do i show my husband what his son is becoming? Leaving with my daughter has run across my mind but never happened because it leaves his brothers helpless...i love my husband and my family but this situation is tearing us apart..

AsPD Mom's picture

Afraid of Your 13-Yr Old Son

I feel so bad for you. It is heartbreaking to realize that one of your children is mentally ill, even worse to realize that they are dangerous. You have probably lived with this so long that you don't even see what really stands out - YOUR SON IS A DANGER TO YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY. He may be barely manageable now and you probably keep telling yourself that you just need to find the right thing to turn him around. After all, he is only 13, right. Even though the human brain is not FULLY developed until about 25, a child's basic personality traits and principles are there from about the age of eight. I hate to tell you this, but unless something drastic is done, he will only get worse and become even more of a threat to you and your family. Imagine what it will be like when he starts to grow into a man, puts on some height and some weight. Your other children deserve to be raised in an environment free of danger. You need to immediately start looking into treatment for his specific disorder. Check with your insurance company to see how much of the treatment they will cover. If there is no intensive intervention now, he will become a dangerous criminal as an adult. That is if he doesn't kill one of you before that. If your husband is resistant, film your son's behavior when he isn't around so you can show him. Then make him read as much as possible about Conduct Disorder and Anti-Social Personality Disorder. He is still young enough that a therapist who knows what they are doing might be able to work with him and his development of emotions other than anger and frustration. Do this before it is too late. You might be able to save him to some degree and certainly save your familly. NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO LOCK THEIR BEDROOM DOORS IN THEIR OWN HOME! This is not normal adolescence, nor a stage. Deep down you probably know all of this. My prayers are with you and your family and I wish you the best.

Serendip Visitor's picture

save yourself while you can

I'm sorry about your problem. Austin feels no remorse and has no problem ruining your life and of everyone around him. You better do your best to bring your husband up to speed about this. He's shown violent behavior as well which means this could be more than just ASPD. This is more like psychopathy. If you have the money, one thing I suggest is taking him to Latin america for a spiritual healing. Otherwise, find ways to send him away. I know he is your child and you can't abandon him, but you have to decide between him and your family.

kilbeboy's picture

hey how is he now?! has any

hey how is he now?! has any change occurred in his behavior at all ?! Seems to me your son is slowly taking the psychopath highway. He seems to be very angry child too. I went through the same phase like him once. My father was there to guide me. He beated the consciousness in me. From where i am from we have a saying you can beat your son until he is 16, then you can consider him as a friend. Seems to me this case is due to lack of discipline in the house ?! I mean like beat your kid hard, if he raises the fist then you should let him know who's the boss. He clearly doesn't sees you as a mother but some woman who is blabbering all the time. Nobody is born evil but they will turn evil with a lack in discipline. There may be a way out for him but he should be equally willing to know the truth which lies in front of him. Dont be afraid (For now) may all be good.

Serendip Visitor's picture

Beat Him?

You obviously know nothing about the disorder everyone here is writing about. And,yes, some people are born "evil" - it's called genetics and genetic pre-disposition. No amount of discipline will correct the disorder and if they have children later, in addition to having poor impulse control, they have learned it is OK to hit a child "really hard". That is a recipe for disaster. A parent who is out of control and physicaly "disciplines" a child is likely to seriously injure or even kill their child.. Hitting is a very poor substitute for discipline. A child learns nothing, other than fear. Better to figure out what is important to that child and make them aware from the start what the rules are and that the consequences for not following the rules will be loss of something important to them. That is more like the way the real world works and the younger they learn, the better. They are given a choice and if they make the wrong one, they will have to live with the consequences. They did it to themselves.

Serendip Visitor's picture

Anti-social late teen

Will a young man with this purposefully plot to kill someone who threatens his household of siblings and parent submitting to him

Barb's picture

antisocial ten-year-old

I have a friend who has a ten-year-old daughter who exhibits, I think, antisocial personality traits. She is "popular" among neighborhood kids, but is the leader and I think they follow her in order not to be the under attack by her. She is frequently cruel to her siblings for no reason and seems to enjoy the control she has in being able to make them cry, scream or lash out at her. Of, course, the sibs get punished as no one except me (and her grandmother, I think) seems to see that she is the instigator. She is very sneaky and says horrible thing to her sibs that she thinks no one hears. Her stock reply is, "I don't care. You just don't get it... I don't care." She never feels shame or remorse for her cruelty and is always blaming everyone else. And she is very good at acting happy and loving when everything is going her way. As soon as something doesn't go her way, she is horrible to everyone around her. Her parents, unfortunately, aren't consistent with disciplining her, as they are with her younger (nine-year-old) sister. When the 9-year-old is told to go to her room, they INSISDT that she go. When the ten-year-old is sent to her room, it doesn't happen, becasuse she just refuses to go, and no one forces the issue. Is there anything I can do to help this kid? Or should I just get out before I become a victim in some way? I feel like I should just get away from the situation, but my heart wants to help if that's possible. Please feel free to reply as I'm beside myself about this.

Serendip Visitor's picture

7 year old grandson

My grandson is 7 years old but is a total loner he is very good in school and very well behaved. He is involved in many activities he plays baseball during baseball season and is involved in Karate a couple times a week... he loves to read and play chess. But he is totally anti social in groups he has been in karate since he was 4 yet never talks to any of the kids in his class same with baseball he enjoys the game and is very good at it but has no relationships with kids on his team. He is very good in school but yet some days crys because he doesnt want to go because he is always by himself and doesnt have any friends. Doesnt enjoy going to birthday parties for classmates. And doesnt want to go to the park if there are kids there. I have read articles on anti social behavior and he really doesnt fit the profile. I am at a loss as to what we can do. The family is a pretty typical dysfunctional family. Mom and Dad are not together but has a relationship with both. Has a relationship with both grandmas. Is good with close cousins. Can anybody give me some ideas of what might be the problem and what we can do?

AsPD Mom's picture

Definitely Not Anti-Social Personaity Disorder

I loved your post. I have two beautiful granddaughters, now 8 and 10, Very similar family situation, but their mom, my daughter, has AsPD. I, too, was worried somewhat about my oldest granddaughter when she was younger. She is extremely intelligent and seems to think way beyond her years. When I don't know how to tackle a problem, I research it. What I found was very encouraging. Many children who appear introverted are actually very particular or choosy about who they want to talk to and with whom they want to form friendships.. They are observers. They are thinkers. They then process the information and form opinions. I would guess this is what is happening with your grandson. I also found that in many situations my granddaughter didn't know what to say to another person. What I found helped at that very young, tender age, was to approach other kids with her - like on the playground. Show him ways to introduce himself. For example, at the park, walk with him to the other kids and let him watch for a few minutes. If he sees something he thinks looks fun and he wants to join in, go to the other kids and ask if the two of you can play with them. Believe me, at that age, kids love it when adults pay attention to them and want to join in their fun. That will be the start of a very positive experience for him. If you like, after a few minutes, tell everyone they wore you out and you need to sit for a few minutes. But, stay close so that he will feel comfortable continuing to play. You can also try telling him some things you did as a child to join in with other kids playing. Tell him that everyone loves to talk about themselves, so he can go up to someone and just ask their name.. Then just continue asking questions. Given the chance, most kids are talkers. When my granddaughter was 8, a new girl started at her private school. My beautiful girl told me that no one was talking to her and she felt bad for her. So, she befriended her. She helped that little girl get through her first few weeks at a new school and turned it into such a good experience. I beamed with pride. Now, at 10, she has a group of three besties. Because she was so choosy about her friends, she chose very well. They are well-behaved, very sweet girls who truly watch out for each other. Not only do they have fun together, but they will defend each other to the very end. I think these are friendships she will have through adulthood. So, stop worrying about your grandson. (Anti-social Behavior Disorder is a very serious personality disorder that used to be called Sociopathy - sociopath.) Your grandson is just young and somewhat introverted. Not always a bad thing. Take care.

Serendip Visitor's picture

know what his probleam is

that to is a form of antisocial i have it and had to get on SSI cause i cant even handle leaveing my house i was always getting good grades in school but hated going cause of all the people never picked up any sports and never really had any friends try to get him help i can say with 100% honesty that you do not want him to grow up with out getting help his life will be horrible i have no idea why they dont explain this side of antisocial maybe its rare i dont normal look these things up but my friend sent me the link trying to help he is stronger than me tho being able to go to baseball games would of been too much for me and am glad he is active it means he has hope none of my familly wanted to admit i had a probleam till i was an adult and by then its too late am glad your watching out for him.....

Serendip Visitor's picture

It really sounds like

It really sounds like aspergers. Also get him tested for Hashimotos thyroditis T3 T4 and auto immune antibodies (there is a close link with Aspergers)

Serendip Visitor's picture

Have him evaluated by a

Have him evaluated by a developmental peditrician. Also, Google Aspergers- this may be helpful.

brigitte's picture

Antisocial he's not, fixable ,social skills trainig

A lot of the terms used can be confusing and when I had placements in social work it took me some time to get used to them. "Antisocial" doesn't mean a person lacks social confidence or doesn't interact much with others. It refers to persons behaving very badly, breaking rules and doing illegal things without feeling any guilt. Most people assesed as having antisocial conditions are moving towards behaving like psycopaths and usually interact readily with others or even are gang members. Only a few of them are loners.

Your grandson has a problem in not having developed enough social skills which in an otherwise capable, normal sounding child, as you described would be the mix of having retinance and anxiety with a lack of suffient learning opportunities earlier for interacting with peers.

In one way he has been aware and socially astute, realising very early that their were unstated rules and expectations to effectively engage with others. He was even good in self awareness realising he had no real idea how to do this. So reasonably he retreated and so missed out further on aquiring and refining these skills.

He is very lucky you have noticed this and become concerned. He is still young enough to be helped in catching up with following basic social skills programs and being given assistance by adults in charge of the places he is with peers.These adults can even get some other children to start help including him. He does need to be helped very soon as this age is at the last parts of having the potential to fairly quickly without much trauma or that much effort to get him on track and soon interacting a lot comfortably, just like other children.
Not helped he would end up with unecessary issues long term.

The fact that he gets on with those he is familiar with and would prefer to be part of things and doesn't compensate in akward or hostile ways, plus is a capable child, indicates he is very much able to be fixed.
That type of child is everyones favourite to work with aquiring social skills since they are eay to assist with brief proper intervention and end up as total successes.

Does your school have guidance counsellors for you to make this type of request from as well as your raising it with his teacher.
Can they give you print outs or booklets on teaching and developing social skills.
This will help you to start understanding what to observe in what he does and doesn't do and needs to be told to try doing more, as well as taking the anxiety away from peer situations.

Some key things are: relax, smile, show interest in others and gradually make short approaches to some one who looks open and isn't absorbed in an established task or interactions.
Say" hello ",and ask them something. LISTEN to their answer and say something good back.
That's enough for an opening , they took him in, he learnt a bit about them.

Couch his need to change in good ways. Tell him he is a lovely clever person, he would make a great friend. When he grows up could have a good job and such jobs expect that he knows how to get on with all kinds of people to be in a "work team".

Point out everyone finds some things easy to learn and be good at and will find other things hard to do untill they work on their weak spot to catch up.
Ask him, to see if he knows kids who have lots of friends but not good at maths or karate?
Then tell him his job now that he is getting a big boy is to learn how to mix and play with other children.

Explain that it's really not going to be hard to do, because now he will be helped to learn a few simple things to do which will fix this.
It only looks hard because he missed out on finding out those few things.

It even won't take that long to get used to saying, "hi" to others instead of avoiding others.
You need to add, that anyway it won't feel worse than keeping on avoiding others feels now at school.
Later he will even feel happy being with other kids, just like when he plays with his cousins.

So if you can read things on teaching kids social skills you can already make a it a happy start on the right track.
Keep humour in your dealings with this , like joking about doing parts of any brief approach skill if he looks worried. "I guess if you smiled and said, 'hi', yet Riley ignored you". Then, will Riley get aliens to disintegrate you?" " No? Not that bad.So Riley hasn't got super powers and is just a kid like you!" "Anyway, it might not be you Riley meant to ignore, he could have ears aching so he can't hear properly that day." And he's scared thinking about the doctors giving him a needle again when his mum picks him up .

Also, note and identify the skills he is using well with others, sharing this with him. Tell him this is what he will be able to do with others soon.That he is just going to start being the same with the other kids. Then they too will know who he really is .
Joke about that to others he must seem like he thinks he's" the invisible man", except we still see his body.

Also make him think what would he be able to do if one of his cousins did to him what he does to the kids in his karate class and school. "Sure make it hard to play with him, wouldn't it?" "Now then, if your other cousin turns up and he's still the same is still friendly way, talks to you, what would you do?" "Play with the friendly one and ignore the cousin who won't talk to you."

It sounds like his mother has for herself enough on her personal life plate. Just keeping their boat of practical areas and emotional needs afloat.Add consequeces of being divorced from his father and your granson an only child. So mum wasn't aware of the need long ago to deal with his social retinance and earlier limited options. She's obviously done well enough in other areas for him to have the other strengths as well as other relatives positive inputs.
It would seem she'd be happy for you to help with this and possibly then get informed to be involved as well or go to the school with you if she doesn't need to be at work.

Best to avoid saying,"the parents are dysfunctional".
Because that term doesn't mean they do not function as well, were better organised practically .Plus easily sidetracked by lots of things going on. So much so, can't prioratise what needs to be dealt with first or the best way .
" Dysfunctional parents", are pathalogically impaired with extremely poor coping skills and twisted ways of dealing with their children, mostly around a level when welfare ought to be involved with considerations of removing the children from their care. More likely the parents are a bit disorganised and scattered by their demands and other personal relationships. This ends up resulting in a lack of predictable domestic patterns for children, inadequate time management and planning seemingly rather a chaotic way to live. These days that would apply to over half of all the average types of parents divorced or not.

I hope that this is a bit helpful to think about. Your grandson is very much in need to have this dealt with and very much able to be fixed.

Do have his ears checked. This outcome in a normal child is often started when they were younger and had ear infections that reduced the level of their hearing for a period of time. When a young child's hearing is reduced they can pick up enough of the sounds to work out what familiar family persons say knowing the patterns of speech and words they use. They may still hear much of the louder instructional voices used by teachers. Yet can't discern what unfamiliar people, especially other little children's speech that isn't that clear at coversational volumes. So they give up responding as they don't know what was said. Over a year like that they can be out of interacting so much they remain avoidant even if eventually their hearing picked up. I'm not saying that was your gransons cause, though it may once have been a factor.

Serendip Visitor's picture

Think husband developed ASPD

I have been married for 33 years now. When he came home from the navy he had just served 956 days under water or refit or schools without leave in three and a half years. When he came home he was going back to a big three transmission plant with nine years accumulated seniority under the contract. This gave him under the contract rules the right to claim vacation slots, holidays he wanted off, weekends jobs and shifts he wanted.
But the area we lived in we just assumed the contract was a guidline, that people observed the rules of the conservative society we lived in. My husband came home with his own idea of what he was and was not going to do in his life, For the first twenty years he was home we held him on the same job on the same shift. We tried getting him to a point he would figure a way to take a vacation after the Christmas holidays and before the 14th of February so he did not interfere with plans other people tried to make but there never seemed to be a way to come up with the funds for a trip or the weather at that time.
In 2001 he started his rebellion over a new job, He went to the UAW national union and had them override the local on taking a new job bid based upon seniority. The problem was it was the son of the county commissioner.
And also the son of his fathers best friend he was denying this new job and shift to. He was young in demand at social functions, and my husband with his 23 years seniority crushed his hope of getting off seconds, I went to my husband and said,' He had to think of this younger mans need of a social life. My husbands answer was nobody paid attention to his need for even a marital life and a vacation or a few days off every once in a while. the one we did not scream at him if he wanted it off was a useless time. he said he had wanted off seconds since he arrived home 20 years before and me and his father used sex to blackmail him into staying put, now he really did not care what any of use thought he should do. he was going to take the shift and job he wanted, and we could fly a kite.
I said OK I will normalize our marriage bed, even go to bat for the next vacation trip off in two years to Paris if he just would back off this job, I said I would even support him taking that years Christmas and thanksgiving holidays if he would just back off one more time. I knew the trouble it was causing would come to our house that next morning, I did not want him hurt or me. My husband suggested I find a Semi moving at high speed and accidently step in front of it so he could find a better more understanding wife.
The next morning he was approached on our front porch by the Commissioners son. They gave him two options, remove his name peacefully or get remove it when he was carried in. My husband gave them a third option leave or get carried off. He ruined the life of four men using combat arts technics everyone forgot he had learned. All four were removed in critical and grave condition. He told his own father that night if he opened his mouth one time he would get his teeth kicked in, Me he kicked the bolted front door in on top of me and told me standing on the door the next time I tried getting him hurt my next date would instead of an affair partner it would be an undertaker. That was the first time I knew he had found out.
Because of that night the next 8 years every vacation, holiday, weekend he wanted off. the legal departments in the county turned a blind eye to his father and friends forcing him with weapons to go to work. I had turned afraid to even try to normalize our marital bed even though he was getting demanding. Then in 2009 he developed MRSA in his spine. Left him without feeling from the top of his legs down. Three years latter after another surgery to repair a MRSA lesion on his heart and three strokes.
He came home and found me in another affair. Wanted the other man to take me away and take the guardianship that the state assigned the second day he was home because I am bi polar.
The other man however was married he also was in a position that his career was linked to his marriage, so he thought he would humiliate the cripple into not raising a stink involving him, By sweeping his cane then calling my husband pathetic. My husbands cane came flying across the room, shattered the other mans scull and when the police arrived he was hammering his face with repeated blows screaming whos pathetic now.
Two weeks latter I was getting ready to go to a political fund raiser, with my husbands mother, father and his fathers best friend when the stress center returned my husband home, I wanted to negotiate with a very angry man, get him to pick a place to meet after the event so every ones grievances and concerns could be put on the table, I meant to say see what kind of solutions could be arranged but I said see what he could be ALLOWED instead.
He announced the next ten minutes that neither me, his father or any of my or his fathers friends had a bloody thing to say in what he was allowed, In his home he was the final judge and arbiter in everything from holidays, to vacations and even where I went and with who, He said I owed him 31 years of marital life and by god I was going to start being the wife he expected that night, And he was never taking the back seat again. To me or any one, I took for the door to scream for help, He was in front of my purse and the phone. He grabbed my new dress and ripped it off. I was crying that it was not my fault but his that I had to refuse his rights as a husband, If I had allowed them who would have been told he was not going to do something they needed from him.
He said well he had needs to and he was going to see to them tonight. I tried reasoning with him pointing out how he had observed it had been 31 years since we had been in bed in that way in his mood and his anger he could hurt me. he was not caring taking me on the living room floor when he finished, I was hurting because I resisted his fathers best friend was hammering on the door. I was going to clean up and get a dressing gown on. he handed me the phone and said they will want a kit on you so don't clean up don't clean up your cloths they will want pictures of what happened.
I took the phone and just stared at it while my husband answered the door and told his fathers friend I was indisposed and not coming. His fathers friend said get out of my way crip. I am coming in and talking to her I work in the mayors office and enter any place in the city. My husband said unless he had a badge and warrant he was leaving. He tried forcing his way past, I heard the scram of tires his fathers friend screaming in terror and a thud, My mother in law was sitting next to me a few minutes latter hearing his father yell to come help with his badly hurt friend, My husband said I hope he bleeds out.
The last two years my husband has enforced his rule that if I am invited someplace he is automatically invited. Armed intimidation failed finally bringing the police to have to notice, when he walked into a dinner after he was left unharmed on our porch so we could have a talk about how to get my husbands cooperation about this years vacation, laid the faces of the men that had pointed pistols at him open to the jawbone. He turned to me and told me if I did not leave with him then he was leaving for his new home out west were our then 8 month old son was waiting with my mother after getting the house settled in two days. He told me if I did not go with him right then He would see I got my half of everything, do not show up where our son was. I got up and left after the police looked at the footage of what happened on the porch. This years vacation was a disaster before it even started with his father getting drunk and telling my husband with a ball bat in hand he was going back home, His father hit with a broken neck in the hall. MY husband did not accept the return of our fares preferring to sue for illegally taking him of the boarding list. We have been in family counseling for a year now. We have been trying to point out that just because other people get things in life doesn't mean he should have the same rights. Our legal system disagrees, they say we illegally kept an indentured servant by blackmail and force, Denied my husband his civil right Had a number of men put on a list they can't buy weapons and the ones they had were confiscated.
His father maintains my husband was to stupid to obey the only rule he was given in life, Shut up. and do as he was told. My husband has not accepted that as his rule. He has made sure that everyone that has interfered in his life has become hurt, He tells me I can leave any time. but I only take my cloths and half the accounts.
That was not ever what I wanted in this marriage, I wanted peace love and understanding. Instead I have a husband that thinks I am a back stabber. The friends I had want nothing to do with me now as long as my husband wont butt out. I have a two year old that if I leave the state wont let me have. even my mother and sister thinks I stabbed my husband in the back.

Serendip Visitor's picture

I don't understand?

From what you've written it looks as if your husband has been the victim of relational abuse and manipulation. Why should he act according to other people's wishes? Why should he shut up and do what he is told? I'm sorry but according to your information, your husband is in the right, and you and the parents are in the wrong.
You say "For the first twenty years he was home we held him on the same job on the same shift." Who is "we"? And what right does anyone else have to tell a man what shift and what job to take? He has autonomy and agency of his own. If his seniority gave him the privilege to claim vacation slots, holidays, weekends jobs and shifts, why shouldn't he claim them?
What do you mean by "he started his rebellion?" If he was, by seniority, entitled to a certain position, he should be supported in applying for it. The Commissioner's son should wait, just as your husband did, until his own seniority gets him the position he wants. The Commissioner's son acted illegally in threatening your husband, and your husband acted within his rights by defending himself.

"We have been trying to point out that just because other people get things in life doesn't mean he should have the same rights. Our legal system disagrees, they say we illegally kept an indentured servant by blackmail and force, Denied my husband his civil right..." This is very strange. According to what you've written, you HAVE denied, or tried to deny your husband his civil rights. Why should your husband not have the sane rights as others? I would be interested to read your answer to this question.
Please don't read any negative tone in my words - none is intended. I am interested to see if I understand you correctly. I am just surprised to read an account of what sounds like manipulation and coercion, apparently written by one of the perpetrators.

Serendip Visitor's picture

Husbands rage and resentment

My husband came home from the Silent service June the first of 1985. After being under water 956 days or in sequestered schools or refit the rest of the three and a half years before his discharge. His father was in a group that did not want to see the problems my husband caused when he was in the Army from 72 to 76. like when he came home from basic and AIT to complete his senior year the first semester, He came back with a very cocky attitude about social position taking back seat to skill. When him and three seniors became very rough taking the first string positions from four sophmores and freshmen whos father had put the starting team fix in because they were school board.

There was a bad beating given my husband because they felt he was the leader of the disrespect he showed. Me and his mother saw in some 43 year old polariods the damage his father and others had done. Frankly I was sick to my stomach when I saw the way they had cut him up whipping him with extension cord while tied to a tree over that incedent. We found out my husband in his senior year had to have 153 sutures and three units of blood from that beating of a 17 year old.

When he came home from the navy 10 years latter nobody wanted my husband to disrupt lives. So I was at first just asked for two years keep my hu8sband from claiming accrued seniority from when he came back from the army in 1976 to 1979.

THe only way I could get him to stand down was deny the sex life he wanted at first. Then it was holidays others felt they needed, vacation slots and the list grew by what his father and our friends wanted. They were just seeing to their wants and needs. I was expected to enable them. And it became a habit to back him down. Some of the fights getting him to go to work on the holidays were very bad where I though he was going to knock my head off, bringing the police telling him to just go to work and let the holidays be peaceful. Every year I would try and find out where we could come up with a fair middle ground to stop the build up of resentment I saw. Until it was just tell my husband to shut up. go to work or get shot.

Now its we say a thing we have the buisness end of a riffle telling us we can be stupid he would leave our brains on the wall if we draw a weapon. He's even threatened his father with being dragged down the road with a noose around his neck behind my husbands horse. This is the deadly person we have to face now< No more compromise. no more promises accepted and if threatened with arrest He has a lawsuit waiting.

It was never my intention to let things come to what they did. I intended to start my life with my husband his first day home. Instead it turned into 31 years of hell. for my husband. Now he's forcing his will.

lorne neaves's picture

my 13 year old brother

My brother Jacob suffers from abandoment from my mother when he was 2 years old. Physical and mental abuse from his three other symptoms through out his life. My dad also went to prison for drinking and driving several times and was hardly around unrolled he finally was sent to prison for 5 1/2 years for vehicular manslaughter. Jacob was then forced to be taken from the only person who did love n care for him, his grandmother. Which he moved in with his mothers sister n her husband where he was mentally and physically abused. From there he was taken from them by the state and placed n several different placement homes for children who mis behave. My father returned home 1 1/2 years ago and he now resides with him. My brother has and dies harm innocent animals, constantly steals, lies, gets into fights, can't get along with others, and now is starting to smoke weed and has just the other day stole a car and is now in jail. He refuses to take fault for his actions, has assulted a police officer right before thanks giving. Is there any chance of helping my brother? What is rong with my brothe? I have my own ideas, but im not an expert. N my dad is givin up all hope. N shows jacob no positive outlook or support. He is still young. Can he still be helped? The police arrested him today for stealing the car, n found serveral more stloen item when they wrecked our house searching for evidence, he actually posted on facebook his confession. How can i help my brother? And my dad? I am his 25 year old sister. Im so scared for him. He is the youngest child of 5. Our parents seperated when he was 2 they both never remarried...n my mother was a drugg abuser n dad an alchoholic. Please help!!!!!!!!!!!! Please

Joannabanana68's picture

Probably thr best thing to do

Probably thr best thing to do is ask for professional help. More than likely he's not going to go himself, maybe you or your dad or both of you together can go speak with a school counselor, a church representative or someone that can help you without you having to pay a professional. Unless you have some kind of insurance to help cover the cost of a mental professional. You can go on his behalf if he won't go. Good luck to and your family, you are in my prayers. God bless you, be strong sweetie.

angleheart's picture

does my spouse have some kind of personnality disorder?

I am hoping that somebody maybe able to tell me if my spouse has signs of some kind of disorder. (narcissistic, antisocial, etc.)

Here are a few of the things he does.

-It is always my fault and never his.
- He never apologizes for anything even when I catch him in a lie. He'll maneuver the situation so it's my fault.
-He is caring, understanding and very helpful to his sister and a couple of his friends. But very cold with my pain.
- At home, he does nothing to help out.
- He drinks and smokes weed. 3 to 4 times per week and does so till all hours of the night by himself and very content doing so.
- He hides the truth from all other people very easily.
- He had a bad upbringing. Hard childhood.
- He is separated with two children. For the first year or so of his divorce he barely saw his children. His ex brought him to court to have all his parental rights remove. She won.
- If his oldest doesn't show him the love he wants, he'll shun him from his life with no regrets. He only loves the one that is all over him. (the oldest is 10 and the youngest is 7)
- He has difficulty finding jobs. He is very picky.
- He never paid me rent, saying it's my house and he shouldn't pay anything. He sometimes buy groceries and say that it should cover his living expense.
-If we are having a big disagreement, he packs and leaves without telling me where he is or if he is coming back
-He threatens to leave all the time if things doesn't go his way.

I could go on but I think with this information you could maybe have an idea

katherine Dixon's picture

I have a husband thatIve been

I have a husband thatIve been with 20 yrs and I have cried for most of it and been very lonely within this marriage and been a single parent to four kids within it, my husband definitely has no sympathy empathy or compassion for us, he is verbally abusive to the kids and animals, and when Im ill he leaves town.

Serendip Visitor's picture

Sounds more like borderline

Sounds more like borderline personality disorder to me. :)

Brigitte's picture

Yes !Your desciption fits a PD & next facing it

There is no doubt that he has ended up developing a full on personality disorder over the years that has become intractable. He may have only stared with traits of whatever personality disorder through an underling disposition and abusive childhood. He since moved on to consolidating the traits by continually using them to get what he wants his way now and the substance abuse develops more of the same responses and would restrict any potential insight to the problems of living that way or dealing with the inadequacy of not working and having the means for making a proper income, being lesser than men of any respected standing.He has the impenetrable defences of the worst personality disorders. He isn't even of the type who remains internally the same but prepared to learn some better ways of behaving for aquiring a more functional fit in society. Many people can fall into this type of disordered persons fit, get damaged soon by them, so scrambled a that they don't get rid of them as soon as it would be logical to do so. They can deplete the partners, shrivel her world, confidence, rescources, confuse them by being so bad the reality is too hard to grasp for ages. Eventually the partner starts waking up to the hell he makes, seeing the devil he looks to be and always will be with the realisation he needs to go some day soon. Yet the painful disapointment has the partner latch onto evey dimming flames flicker that there may be hope on the few crumbs of lovliness devil drops intermittently. For a further time intermittent reinforcement has preposterously ongoing impact. Yet devil having got so complacent in his established cycle of abuse gets more lax with his crumb tossing, nor can he cope with a lack of distress causing power if partner adjust to coping with greatly limited expectations he even ups the anti of dispariging her and abuse. This ongoing escalation of devil's negatives without declining crumbs scattered eventually gets the partner calling it a day or screaming back her demands for improvements and pointing out his deficits can get the devil to go if young enough to get another unsuspecting victim. this type of relationship with a serious personality disorder always ends eventually if the partner is more normal than not. How damaged , the losses of all kinds are totally in proportion to how long time is spent with a devil, plus how long and hard the road to recovery will end up/.
Once you can ask the question as well as you did, with true coherence, it shows you do know that's what he is and by inference what you ought to do. Just ask yourself do you want to be abused, devalued, harmed and even unethically encourage all his worst traits by enabling him to do so? Are all your relatives and friends so worthless that they deserve to watch you pointlessly diminish yourself with nothing to ever give them of any worth anymore? Are you so bad or deficient in anything positive that you deserve a devil only to abuse you, not a human to respect you as a partner? Do you lack confidence in having capabilities to work effectively in this world and are desperate for an excuse to abdicate saying “devil abused me so much he left me too sick to do anything? If your answers are NO, start moving ASAP. If you have any Yes answers see a therapist to find out why they are Yes. The yes answers by fears and confusion when sorted out can turn to NO answers and go action ASAP. If you have really true deep seated Yes answers, it doesn't matter , you've found your soul mate, even if he is from hell. There is no cure for the overt personality disorders of the narcissistic or psychopathic type. A minority out of self intrest on rare occasions in prisons may deal with a few adjustments not to repeat crimes to stay out of jail, not their relationship behaviours. Covert self regulating disordered persons of this stream are not well understood and have the sense to avoid normal types for relationships with expectations that they couldn't sustain meeting.

Serendip Visitor's picture

APD victim

For the last ten years I have been going through the worse times of my life with my ex husband. I never understood why he was always so mean, rude, trying to ruin mine and our childrens life. I grew up in a small town of good down home people and moved to a big city where I met this monster. I never knew at what moment he was going to blow up on me, or intimidate me for something, accuse me of something I didnt do, force me to do things I didnt want to do, etc.Well, ten years later, I finally get the courts to order a psych eval on this person. He was diagnosed with Anti Social Personality Disorder. My children are terrified of him and they dont want to see him. He currently has supervised visitation because he assualted our oldest son ( who is a minor) and with eye witnesses seeing him do it, still denys it. My question is, will someone with this disorder ever just "stop" with harrassment, lies, violent impulses and outburst? He abuses drugs and alcohol as well as having this disorder. I have been fighting to keep my children away from him since our divorce 8 years ago. Recently I have almost completely succeeded by getting his visits Supervised only! Since then, he is still having violent tendencies, one was during a visit with the kids. How does someone deal with a monster like this? Is this a disorder that could possibly drive him to really harm me or my children? I know there are treatments out there but he is refusing to do it. So what do I do now? When will it end? I would appreciate any advice from someone who is going through the same thing, or someone who has this disorder to help me understand it.

Serendip Visitor's picture


I know this is an old post from 2011--5 years have passed since I've read your post about your ex. I am hoping everything has turned out okay and that you and your children are safe.

I don't believe someone that far broken can ever be 'fixed' and I've had an ex that displayed many of the symptoms described in your letter. It was hell living with him---absolute hell---and thank God I had no children with him but he does have 2 children with a previous relationship and he was more neglectful than physically abusive. He lives now with his parents and he's in his mid 40's. His drug problems are still big ones. His brother says since I've left he's had 4 relationships which all ended horribly and he's overdosed twice and ended up in hospital via ambulance.

They can't change, won't change, have no desire to change. I think it is also part of Narcisstic Personality Disorder as well.

Hope by some miracle your ex has seen the light and changed his ways. If he abused the kids in front of witnessess I would be calling the police and charging him with assault each time. Get him jailed, get the courts to agree to no visitation because of it, and move away as far as I could to keep me and my kids safe , change my name, whatever. Good luck :)

Serendip Visitor -Natalie's picture

Stay or go

A lot of times I also just feel like I should stay home and do nothing rather than go out and risk something bad happening. A lot of bad things have happened when I have gone out such as getting stuff stolen from my car, my house was robbed because I did drugs and drank so much I blacked out and let random people into my house then fell asleep. It has been a horrible problem for me and now I don't feel motivated to do anything because at least if I stay home nothing bad can happen. Fear. I always feel guilty about something. I've come to learn that it's mature to accept responsibility for our mistakes, but it seems like now guilt is eating away at me for almost everything I do I feel guilty or disappointed in myself. I feel like I have nothing to be proud about in myself. I'm always looking at everything in a half empty glass kind of way. I just want to find happiness.

brigitte's picture

If you can overcome any drug

If you can overcome any drug addiction you aquired you are someone who can be treated for your other psychological issues. Your capacity to feel guilt is a strong indication of conditions that are very responsive to the right help involving counselling and possibly some medication for a time

Serendip Visitor -Natalie's picture


Sometimes I feel like I have APD because when I'm in social situations like a class or hanging out with a group of people I feel like I don't fit in. I'm often times really quiet because I don't know what to talk about. A lot of times I feel confused with myself so I don't want to go out, I will just stay at home and watch movies because I don't want to face feeling awkwardly shy or quiet. I have trouble finding things that I enjoy. When I'm around a lot of people I feel nervous and boring. For example, I won't know how to react to a certain situation or how to respond to something someone says. I feel more comfortable sitting back and watching and listening to what everyone else has to say. I used to have a drinking problem due to this feeling of uncomfortableness. I would drown the feeling with alcohol and eventually black out and not have control over what I was doing or saying. It was definitely horrible but I have over come the drinking problem as it has caused so much worry, strife, stress, and more problems in my life. On a day to day basis I just feel depressed, I have no motivation to go out and do something positive for my life. I feel embarrassed about my life. Maybe anti-depressants would help, I don't know what else to do. It was possibly contributed to my personality by my mother who had paranoid delusions that my father was sexually abusing me and poisoning her food. I often saw her fears consume her mind. Then, when I was 10 years old she divorced my father, we moved out (my sister, mother, and I) into a small 1 bedroom home, and my father was always there for us financially but never there emotionally. He always avoided the situation rather than faced it. I grew up with hostile feelings towards my mother and would drink and do drugs to try to fight the feeling of helplessness. I ended up on probation when I was 13 for four years until I went to a girls home for six months, then I was released to my father. I still never got the emotional support from my father as much as I tried, but he still supports me financially. I often feel confused about what I want to do in life, regarding a job, house, man, all these decisions and choices stress me out. I know I should have made better choices growing up. I just get frustrated so easily and I feel like giving up. Whatever may be causing it, I don't know, but I do know that I need to do something about it or I will be living my life in misery.

Serendip Visitor's picture

That sounds more like asocial

That sounds more like asocial behavior, rather than antisocial personality disorder. Antisocial personality disorder is defined by a chronic manipulation of others without feelings of remorse or empathy. Individuals suffering from antisocial personality disorder are actually rather friendly and superficially charming, but they can also be hostile, aggressive and dangerous. They could be your neighbors, friends, or teachers and you would never know. They do not commonly suffer from depression, and do not care at all about family. Their main focus is on themselves, and their own personal gain.

Serendip Visitor's picture

Oh okay, I think you're

Oh okay, I think you're right. I thought an antisocial personality disorder was not wanting to be social, but you're right. I do have feelings of compassion and guilt if I do something wrong, so I definitely don't have this disorder. I just have a problem keeping healthy relationships, but I'm working on it.

Karen's picture

My soon to be ex-husband has this

I am in the process of a divorce from someone who has this diagnosis. I was not told about his problems as I should have been prior to the marriage. His parents kept it a secret from me as they were just happy to have someone take him off their hands. I thought it was me going crazy in the marriage til I snooped through his stuff and learned he had been under psychiatric care since the age of 17 and I found all his anti-depressants which by the way were not helping. No the divorce is going through and the children and I are so happy to see the back of him. Our home is a more joyful place now that he is gone. There is no help for these people just save yourselves and any children and get out. They should have an island and place all the people with this condition on it so they can all torment eachother. I am so glad to be getting away from the freak I am married to.

Serendip Visitor's picture

That's a bit rough

I'm a 29year old woman and also suffer from a personality disorder. I was diagnosed with ADHD and put Ritalin when I was 12. I also got very depressed when certain things happened In my life. I had an off and partner for 8years who I believe my condition must have effected the relationship but have more love for my family my friends, my current partner and my x partner. It's very hard to know you are different and every day is a struggle to make the right decisions so I don't impact negatively on anyone else. I am different but I'm still a person and do hope there is a cure or at least I may have a chance at a normal life. After reading your msg I felt so desperately Ill and wondered if I should even bother. I know your situation is different and everyone elses is but being as empathic as I am I feel for you so I only ask you acknowledge or give hope to others that are different to your husband. I'm so sorry he wasn't upfront with you.