Notes 10-21

Class notes 10-21-2010

pfischer – discussing the issue of Nazi discussion and how it wasn't productive

kgould- it functioned as a healthy way to dialogue, shouldn't have taken as much time as it did

Anne Dalke – use value of name calling and how discussions can be stopped when you name call

platano – discussion about what we should be posting

rachelr – I usually talk about something we discussed and I didn't feel we finished, or a critical response. Something to open the discussion

Anne- you can rant and not be as structured as you are in class. No time limit. Don't want to give direction so you can speak about what you want to speak about

maht91 – not sure how accurate each word is in its definition since you can dig farther by defining the words in the definition

ckosarek – we shouldn't be looking for words but rather have senses of the words so they are shaped by their context rather than something more specific. If you look up a word that has a specific definition then you lock it into a meaning and you cant explore it more; different languages use senses rather than specific definitions

Anne Dalke – if you allow for contextual specificity more rich in meaning

ckosarek – lifeguard is a good example. Can be the kings guard or something we are more familiar with

maht91 – normally looks for one definition for each word

World of the Wars

EVD – there's really only one form of mass communication, its hard to believe that many people would believe that and think that its a metaphor for Nazi invasion

Anne Dalke – you're one of the few that were surprised, many other were gullible and said they would believe it

tgarber – if you missed the parts that said it wasn't true then you would believe it because he had a professor (and other reputable sources) and it was the only form of communication

SuperMarioGirl – knew it was fake but didn't realize everyone else knew it was fake, thought they were doing it as a prank and fooling everyone

Anne Dalke- it was very effective theater that had many people believing it

Owl – didn't want to believe that it wasn't real. If you can imagine it then its like maybe it could happen. Its scary to think it could happen

veritatemdelixi – only could happen at that time because after world war 2 we saw the atrocities

kgould – aquatine hungerforce (sp?) machines were taken down by bomb squads after 9/11 because people were so scared. Flower truck crashed during anthrax scare and people thought it was subversive attack. If you are primed for hysteria then you will become hysterical

Aya Seaver – America has never really been attacked on our own land, no reference point made it more believable because they had no backup. They don't know the feeling and have nothing to compare it to

ckosarek – no one wants to believe that people can convincingly lie like that. Something set up as a broadcast report style then it should be true. Not in our nature to consider it a lie.

Anne Dalke– journalistic format bothered us

Anne Dalke – how would you check this to be possible

pfischer– you don't fact check because you respond automatically, instinctual

rachelr – unbelievable

SuperMarioGirl- it wasn't on the other stations

owl – people are instinctual, they react without thinking about checking

EVD – they would never have musical interludes if that were really to happen, most adults checked multiple channels on 9/11 to see if it was real

Anne Dalke – we are naturally skeptical

veritatemdelixi – government official sounds just like the president

Anne Dalke – gives it credence

owl – we feel more strongly connected to something that is read as a narrative

rachelr – don't think invasion from mars is really believable. From another country then okay it would be more believable

SuperMarioGirl – but they hadn't been to the moon yet, our knowledge is much more extensive now. The timeline was too fast

Anne Dalke – what makes us gullible to a story

Aya Seaver – science fiction wasn't established as a genre at that time. They weren't used to that kind of story. Its a completely different context since we are more used to hearing about it.

Anne Dalke – does that make you more gullible if the genre was less well known

Aya Seaver – it depends on your knowledge. Don't know about cars but yes about dictionaries so I wouldn't be able to bargain for a car but I would for a dictionary

pfischer -the invasion narrative is well known, even if not that specific story

veritatemdelixi – 1938 we weren't out of the depression we were gearing up to World War II .. don't know if this could have happened another time since everyone was so worried about being involved in the war. They thought that maybe they should worry about outer space as well after hearing this

Anne Dalke – there was an anxiety that this story fit

Anne Dalke – locations matter if you live around there because you know where it is

platano – I can't watch it at night because I cant deal with aliens so I listened to it in the morning instead. Your imagination starts up

Anne Dalke – can we relocate nonfiction in the attitude of the hearer, rather than the intention of the creator. Our expectation is factual

ckosarek – you can validate that by looking at the reverse, some people think the holocaust didn't happen because of what they heard, so shouldn't the opposite be possible

FatCatRex – we can think about it in that way because our perception is so much a part of how it is continued. The ripple effect of people believing it then calling their friends and convincing them as well. Gains validity

Anne Dalke – so did they listen to this broadcast make it nonfiction

FatCatRex – for the people that believed it it did. Believed it into being

kgould – wrote a paper freshman year and people are still posting thinking it is real (about vampires and how to meet them)

kgould – thrill of disaster, deviation from our normal daily schedule. While we are not physically in other worlds there are people who do get lost in other worlds

EVD – if you can read a religious text as fiction or nonfiction then its because its based on how you read it. You can listen to the broadcast and hear it as a trick or as a fictional story there are those two stories

veritatemdelixi – I wouldn't take Orson Welles as a serious source but I'd like to have dinner with him

rachelr – you put effort into the performance and created a world that was believable that they could step into

Aya Seaver – having people treat your fiction on nonfiction is disturbing because it feels like they didn't read it or listen. If form and content got attention then this wouldn't happen its more sensationalist to believe that its about their life

Anne Dalke – like readers to have a more distinct perception of fact and fiction

veritatemdelixi – there was a video of him looking very disturbed that people believe him

FatCatRex – maybe he felt that he had to do that for the public. Because he looks like a jerk if he looks pleased by it

kgould – there's being fooled then there's being a fool. Being fooled is “ah ha you got me” being a fool is genuinely believing it

pfischer – there's a culture of skepticism, base level of skepticism.

Anne Dalke – the educational system tries to make you more skeptical, teaching you to be more critical thinkers

owl – my mother thinks that I'm not attached to god because a teacher made me that way

Anne Dalke – the educational system makes you more skeptical

owl – yeah, they do make you question things but they don't make you believe it just question it

veritatemdelixi – you can't fully blame the educational system

Sandra Gandarez – I think that its a difference based on our times because my mom hears something and runs with it while I can go look for proof

EVD – you can believe the bi-co news (April Fools edition) because there is nothing to compare it to

Anne Dalke – has anyone else fallen for that April fools bi-co news?

veritatemdelixi and supermariogirl have

owl – if someone is telling you an April fools joke and laughing you wont believe it, has to be performed

Anne Dalke – War of the Worlds was very well acted

veritatemdelixi – has to be a monopoly on the information

EVD – depending on the news you wouldn't even think about it if it didn't effect you. Like people in California probably didn't care about New Jersey for the war of the worlds

rachelr – fake quiz where all of the answers were wrong in a class, that effected me

veritatemdelixi – did anyone's parents tell you “this is fiction” when they read you a book?

Aya Seaver – yes, its like Santa Clause

rachelr – and the tooth fairy

f for fake

pfischer – the movie was really easy to watch because it was constructed as reality and it was familiar to me. Like MTVs reality tv shows

FatCatRex- I knew War of the Worlds was fake so I wasn't emotionally attached just like I went into this knowing it was a mocumentary. Too disjunctive

Aya Seaver – I don't like reality tv because they're real people so why do I care. I loved this movie

kgould – the style reminded me of the french style

Aya Seaver – by keeping you off balance the whole time you don't have time to notice the time; fell for the Picasso story because I don't know much about him while I knew a lot about War of the Worlds

veritatemdelixi – I fact checked the Cliff Irving thing, his narrative isn't really finished in the movie

EVD – in Wikipedia they list every single one of the tricks or jokes in the movie. Orson Welles is just not a likable person. He was coming up with tricks (actors, places) but you aren't fooling anyone when it doesn't matter it doesn't effect the viewers at all

veritatemdelixi – if you were interested in the art world this would have been very interesting. Lots of fakes in galleries

Anne Dalke – expertise is brought into question

FatCatRex – he chose to make the film in a certain way for his own entertainment. It would have value in his making of the film as a whole

EVD – the pieces that he puts in about people that he knows but no one else knows takes away from the documentary.

Veritatemdelixi – the last 17 minutes were so truthful that factuality has nothing to do with it

ckosarek – it doesn't matter if the painting are fake if people are taking them as real

Anne Dalke – the longer something hangs in a gallery the more real it will become. What does f for fake do to your thoughts about War of the Worlds

rachelr – I didn't fact check and I thought it was interesting, difficult to watch but the storyline was interesting

I thought that “F” is for Fake was a completely false story. The way it was constructed was so difficult for me to follow that I was confused for the most part about everyone and everything occurring in the story. I took everything he said as false and a story that he was making up for our entertainment. It did nothing to enhance my thoughts on the War of the Worlds since I was unable to make a solid connection between the two. I found War of the Worlds so ridiculous that I was baffled that people actually believed it happened. I didn't fact check anything or search for the truth but I found so many impossibilities in the story that I was saying to myself “that couldn't have happened”. My assurances actually had nothing to do with aliens and everything to do with the presentation of the story and the time line in which they presented it. No way in the world would you find an expert 3 minutes after announcing something so important. And how would you get a reporter there so quickly? If you paid attention to the time it took them to complete tasks you would notice the impossibilities.