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week 2 - Neurobiology and Behavior

Paul Grobstein's picture

Rich conversation in our first week forum.   Very much looking forward to seeing what's on all our minds during the second week, as we think about the usefulness of the story of the brain as a box full of interconnected boxes, with its capacity to generate outputs without inputs. 

Pleiades's picture

I think that is just amazing

I think that is just amazing that men can experience this phenomenon as well. Were talking about how sometimes wanting a baby sooo much can lead your brain (or whatevs you think does it) to manifesting the symptoms of pregnancy in your body by relaseing hormones, but most often it doesn’t. Kinda following the box theory, the 'iwannababy' box gets stimulated somehow and then bam, your body makes hormones and you get this phenomenon (like Stacy was saying). But the fact that men get this as well is the reallly crazy part. I guess I’m kinda thinking that women’s bodies know what to do. We already have these levels of hormones and they already fluxate with our cycle, so falsely increasing the levels although weird, is normal. But mens bodies are in no way prepared to have a baby. For the brain to be convinced that the body can do something that it never ever would normally do is beyond me. I guess I’m just thinking that is okay for women to have the ‘iwannababy’ box but men shouldn’t. I guess the brain is just too powerful for the body.

I think this really ties into the placebo affect (as mentioned by csandrinic above). Its really the same thing going on. Your brain is convincing your body to change without receiving the correct stimulus ie drug (I guess who is to say what is correct tho eh). It like when your sick, if you want to get better, your going to get better faster then when you don’t. Another example of the brain totally controlling the body is in persons with multiple personality disorder (MPD for our use). In MPD each personality can have a different physical manifestation within the patient. For example they will have different blood pressure and heart rate. Even more extreme cases occur where one personality will cause the body to have diabetes and one wont. In this case, one box is definitely causing two different outputs, even though the brain is the same. I really don’t know what to make of this. I think its just amazing that the brain has so much control over your body. I think that if we can train ourselves to control this power, then we truly can control our bodies instead of this façade of command that we think we have now.

michelle's picture

The Beauty of Processing Love

I think it’s completely beautiful. Here is my somewhat romanticized view of the brain and nervous system based off of the models we have talked about thus far:

We all know every human differs with regards to hair, eye color, etc. all the way and down their finger prints. We pride ourselves in being unique. In the same way, I believe every human’s brain and nervous system is unique. Because 99.999…% of our brain is suggested to be interneurons, I think most of the differences are found here. Our genes determine the way our brain is set up (a lot of psychological disorders tend to be hereditary), and no two nervous systems are the same. We build memory through various inputs from our external word. However, the same external inputs are processed differently by the individual before stored as memory. So, although two people may have the same upbringing, they may have different memories based on their perceptions of their upbringing. New input passes through a number of memory boxes before decisions are made, which explain free will and individual decision making. Other types of input take others paths passing though different “boxes” depending on the desired or involuntary output. My perception of the nervous system and reasoning is similar to that of a pinball machine. The input is fired in from the launcher thing (input from the surroundings) and it just bounces around while you get to voluntarily hit it every which way, tossing it around some more. It gets stuck in warp holes and fires out again. You hit it to bounce it up some more (juggle around some thoughts), then after a bunch of movement, you come to a decision and it falls into the gutter – Output. Sometimes your first launch isn’t strong enough to get it into the game area - input that produces no output. Sometimes it just immediately falls into the gutter after being launched- reflex.

On a more interesting note, I was reading this post called Making Love Logical: The Neurological Process of Love. It investigated brain activity of newly in-love couples. The studies showed that regions of the right caudate nucleus and right ventral segmental area were particularly active when the lover was shown a picture of his/her significant other. These areas are rich in dopamine and part of the brain’s motivation and reward system. This made me think of Jack Nicholson’s famous quote in As Good as It Gets, “You make me want to be a better man.” Not surprisingly, the results were different for men than women (We all know men tend to think with other things besides the brainJ). Women brain activity was associated with reward, emotion, and attention, while men showed more activity in visual processing areas. One explanation was that women have many hormones that produce frequent, varied and intense emotions, while men have androgens (anabolic steroids) which help to develop their masculine characteristics. Another beautiful example of input/output boxes in action. The input may be the same to both parties, but are processed completely differently. Understanding the processing, i.e. the pathways and boxes affected, we can explain the relative roles of men and women in love. Maybe we can even come up with a cocktail of love hormones we could shoot into the man of our dreams. I know in the Pacific, a lot of islanders have traditional love spells including different drinks and perfumes. It’d be fun to research the likelihood of those concoctions working based on their chemical make-up.

A response to the interesting yet irrelevant posts about Evolution:

Because our society is so multifaceted and in continuous need of every type of person to function (be it the McDonald’s worker or the Brain Surgeon), who is to say which humans are more valuable in this Darwinist model? How do you determine a human more fit for survival than others- strength? Beauty? Intelligence? Wealth? What if you threw all these people on a deserted island (not the TV show Survival style, but for reals), who would be the most fit then? The more you try to define this fit human species, the more controversial and disgusting the subject becomes. We are not toying with evolution. We are evolution. Just as the clown fish learns to live with the anemone to survive or the otter learns to use rocks to crack open oyster shells, we learn to battle cancer with chemotherapy.

Lastly, a Request to the class:

I have arrived on time to class and still had to stand in the back despite there being available a number of open seats. These seats were “saved” for friends who arrived up to 10 minutes late for class. If I had arrived late for class, I wouldn’t have minded standing because I understand the consequences of arriving late. This issue was brought up by other students as well. Saving seats provides incentive for others to show up late for class. It is also unfair to the people who arrive on time. We are all adults, and I would ask of you to reconsider saving seats as it is unfair to you classmates. And if you are one of those people who like to have your seat saved for you, I ask of you not to be upset with your friend if s/he decides not to save your seat anymore, or perhaps be an even bigger person and just tell them not to save you a seat anymore. Sorry for sounding bitchy and thanks.

TMCorder's picture

Putting the Models Together

I think it’s completely beautiful. Here is my somewhat romanticized view of the brain and nervous system based off of the models we have talked about thus far:
We all know every human differs with regards to hair, eye color, etc. all the way and down their finger prints. We pride ourselves in being unique. In the same way, I believe every human’s brain and nervous system is unique. Because 99.999…% of our brain is suggested to be interneurons, I think most of the differences are found here. Our genes determine the way our brain is set up (a lot of psychological disorders tend to be hereditary), and no two nervous systems are the same. We build memory through various inputs from our external word. However, the same external inputs are processed differently by the individual before stored as memory. So, although two people may have the same upbringing, they may have different memories based on their perceptions of their upbringing. New input passes through a number of memory boxes before decisions are made, which explain free will and individual decision making. Other types of input take others paths passing though different “boxes” depending on the desired or involuntary output. My perception of the nervous system and reasoning is similar to that of a pinball machine. The input is fired in from the launcher thing (input from the surroundings) and it just bounces around while you get to voluntarily hit it every which way, tossing it around some more. It gets stuck in warp holes and fires out again. You hit it to bounce it up some more (juggle around some thoughts), then after a bunch of movement, you come to a decision and it falls into the gutter – Output. Sometimes your first launch isn’t strong enough to get it into the game area - input that produces no output. Sometimes it just immediately falls into the gutter after being launched- reflex.
On a more interesting note, I was reading this post called Making Love Logical: The Neurological Process of Love. It investigated brain activity of newly in-love couples. The studies showed that regions of the right caudate nucleus and right ventral segmental area were particularly active when the lover was shown a picture of his/her significant other. These areas are rich in dopamine and part of the brain’s motivation and reward system. This made me think of Jack Nicholson’s famous quote in As Good as It Gets, “You make me want to be a better man.” Not surprisingly, the results were different for men than women (We all know men tend to think with other things besides the brain). Women brain activity was associated with reward, emotion, and attention, while men showed more activity in visual processing areas. One explanation was that women have many hormones that produce frequent, varied and intense emotions, while men have androgens (anabolic steroids) which help to develop their masculine characteristics. Another beautiful example of input/output boxes in action. The input may be the same to both parties, but are processed completely differently. Understanding the processing, i.e. the pathways and boxes affected, we can explain the relative roles of men and women in love. Maybe we can even come up with a cocktail of love hormones we could shoot into the man of our dreams. I know in the Pacific, a lot of islanders have traditional love spells including different drinks and perfumes. It’d be fun to research the likelihood of those concoctions working based on their chemical make-up.
A response to the interesting yet irrelevant posts about Evolution:
Because our society is so multifaceted and in continuous need of every type of person to function (be it the McDonald’s worker or the Brain Surgeon), who is to say which humans are more valuable in this Darwinist model? How do you determine a human more fit for survival than others- strength? Beauty? Intelligence? Wealth? What if you threw all these people on a deserted island (not the TV show Survival style, but for reals), who would be the most fit then? The more you try to define this fit human species, the more controversial and disgusting the subject becomes. We are not toying with evolution. We are evolution. Just as the clown fish learns to live with the anemone to survive or the otter learns to use rocks to crack open oyster shells, we learn to battle cancer with chemotherapy.
Lastly, a Request to the class:
I have arrived on time to class and still had to stand in the back despite there being available a number of open seats. These seats were “saved” for friends who arrived up to 10 minutes late for class. If I had arrived late for class, I wouldn’t have minded standing because I understand the consequences of arriving late. This issue was brought up by other students as well. Saving seats provides incentive for others to show up late for class. It is also unfair to the people who arrive on time. We are all adults, and I would ask of you to reconsider saving seats as it is unfair to you classmates. And if you are one of those people who like to have your seat saved for you, I ask of you not to be upset with your friend if s/he decides not to save your seat anymore, or perhaps be an even bigger person and just tell them not to save you a seat anymore. Sorry for sounding bitchy and thanks.

Sasha's picture

From the various topics of

From the various topics of discussion this past week, I found the “Harvard Law of Animal Behavior” to be very interesting. It seems as though the human brain has a strong desire to assign a pattern or some kind of logical system to everything around it, even though that is not always the case- as was observed with the crickets. I wonder why the human brain developed in such a way that it constantly searches for some sort of logic or pattern and why didn’t it develop to allow humans to always do as they please, which is what other animals seem to do. Is it perhaps from the vast amount of “boxes” in our brain that allow for so much processing- the only way to make sense of everything that’s going on is to attempt to group different things? Are all the connections that humans make actually true outside of human perception or merely a product of the brains desire for “grouping”? Are there more things in nature that are really just the way they are for no particular reason in the same way that researchers observed that animals act as they please? How many connections exist because our brain wants it to exist not necessarily because it exists in nature?

Jodie Lin's picture

week2 posting

Following the webpost " Behavior and Addiction", I started wonering how this applies to the disorders alot of people suffer in this world. I'm talking about disorders such as anorexia and bulimia. Because behavior and brain are so deeply connected with each toher, if a person suffered from a stroke, could the damaged part of the brain stop the body from having the urge to throw-up or stop eating? I ask this because in a way, these eating disorders become extremely addictive as time goes by, often times, it becomes a habitual thing. Would the 10^12 neurons in our brain have anything to do with it? Would it have any effect on these urges?

Ian Morton's picture

The Lens of Perception

While I find the sheer number of neurons in our bodies to be impressive, I am more interested by the idea that (far) less than .01% of our neurons are in contact with the world. The brain itself is isolated from the world, as it has no direct connection to the world. Then with 99.99% of our neurons being interneurons, very little of our nervous system really has a direct perception of the world. After those very few sensory neurons, everything is essentially transmitted as chemical and electrical signals with varying concentrations and frequencies. The world can only exist to our brains through the medium (or filter) of our nervous system.

As Emily Dickinson tells us, the mind contains the world, but it’s also interesting to consider that the mind can never come into contact with this world (assuming that mind is limited to the brain and not a transcendent aspect of the self). As the mind contains a world that it can only know through the medium of our nervous system, the world that we “know,” is not as it is in-and-of-itself (the world qua world). However, we can never know what we miss by viewing the world through the lens of our mind. I suppose this goes back to the tree in the woods question, as one may ask if the world un-perceived exists or even matters.

eshuster's picture

the brain, the world, and our interpretation

      Yes, it’s impressive that only .01% of our neurons are in contact with the world but one must consider the fact that what we consider the world could also be our brain telling us what the world is. Like Emily Dickinson wrote about how the brain is larger than the sky but it’s only larger because our brain creates the sky. Does our brain create the world? And if our brain creates the world then we only enabling people to think in one direction. It seems to me that if one sees something differently than a group of people then they are considered weird, but this single person is seeing the world the way their brain is creating it.

      This logic of free thinking is challenged because we are not thinking freely; we are interpreting what our brain is telling us the world is. With this image and the bias our brain has, our minds are creating ideas and actions that are really just based on the way our brain interprets the world. In effect, something like color blindness could be create serious problems because color blindness is not a trait/disease most people have, however it is an interpretation of the image our brain projects of the world. If one sees a green light instead of a red light and continues driving through the intersection, that person has done nothing wrong because it is that persons brain that created the world so that this light is green and not red (something many other people would see). If this were the case I would pose the question, should this person with red/green color blindness get a ticket for running a red light? In this case is that red light relative to the person who sees it and should they be penalized for their brain’s image of the world at that moment?

Holly Stewart's picture

Instincts & Implications for Free-Will

The phrase ‘output without input’ immediately makes me think of instinctive actions. Granted an instinctive action is the result of a key stimulus which activates specific mechanisms and a fixed action pattern occurs (Wikipedia). Instinctive actions are the result of input into the system, but unless overridden by intelligence can cause an organism (humans included) to act “without thinking.” The idea of being able to override a “fight or flight” mechanism with intelligence is something that I want to return to later, but right now just focus on the instinct part. I would guess that everyone will admit to acting without thinking, or once in a while to feeling like you are on “auto-pilot,” both of which loosely sound like outputs with no input. Reactions and instincts are what we claim to be a subconscious response that has developed from memory and learning. Would an infant be capable of output without input or does this theory only apply to humans with more experiences? I certainly think that living in the type of world which we do we are constantly exposed to stimuli in many different forms and our brain reacts to this stimuli in many different ways.

What I am trying to get at is the fact that even though it seems like there are outputs without inputs, I’m not really buying it. Humans operate in a world dependent on sense-experience. There is no way that a human can even conceive to be in a situation that doesn’t involve input (and please, no one should suggest that a human in a vacuum is not receiving input for two reasons: (1) because no one here has experienced being in a vacuum so I don’t think we should make assumptions and (2) because (philosophically speaking) if you were in a vacuum you would be receiving input about what it is to be in a vacuum; but I digress…).

Furthermore I am concerned with the implications of having outputs without inputs. From what we know now about the brain and how it operates, I might be able to accept that there may be some situations that may seem like there is an output without an input, but I also think that this theory has some serious consequences. Here is where I want to look at some unique human characteristics, name intelligence and consciousness, specifically examining these with reference to free-will. If human acts of consciousness are acts of output without input then we are challenging the nature of human free-will. Acts of free-will are the result of a conscious being, one who is thinking and making decisions about their environment and physical situation. Humans make free-willed decisions (output) after considering and processing all relevant information (input). If there can be output without input then consciousness may not be under our control as much as we would like to think. This further implies that free-will may not be the result of a linear process (input to output) but rather may be a construction of our brain or genes or whatever.

This brings me to my last point: the idea of the brain as boxes within boxes. What is the point of boxing things up anyway? Why are we trying to limit the brain; its connections and its capacity are far beyond the scope of boxes, symbols and arrows. I think the “box model” is an improvement on the “spaghetti model” but I don’t think it’s sufficient. The brain is an interdisciplinary organ, in the sense that many different areas communicate and control each other and I think it is a bit ill-conceived to think we can map out the brain by categorizing it and putting it into boxes. Not only are there more neurons than we can count, but weren’t we just saying last week how little we know about the brain? We say there is no input as the cause of an output and that may be true, but we are considering the brain in such a linear style: why does the brain have to be so straightforward and fit so nicely into boxes? Frankly, I much prefer to think of the brain as complicated until proven otherwise.

Meera Seth's picture

"Time Travel in the Brain"

In the recent January 29th edition of Time Magazine, a mind and body special issue, one article in particular caught my attention. Daniel Gilbert and Randy Buckner's essay entitled "Time Travel in the Brain" springboards from the very concept of inputs and outputs and delves into what is in fact happening when neither input nor (ostensibly) output is present in the brain.

The piece begins with a rather striking assertion: "What are you doing when you aren't doing anything at all? If you said 'nothing,' then you have just passed a test in logic and flunked a test in neuroscience." Put simply, the human brain has what can best be described as a vast network. When we appear idle and removed from present tasks, our brains are actually active. Within such a network, one is able to retrieve memories of past occurrences as well as access thoughts regarding the potential future.

However obvious Gilbert and Buckner's general point appears to be, there nonetheless lies a truly profound and perhaps even supernatural undercurrent to this explanation. The power of one's imagination is indeed boundless, moving freely from past to present to future. In terms of the past, one may recall a fond memory. As for the future, one could envision an important upcoming event. We have the ability to escape the present for a period of time and experience another time all together.

kjusewiczh's picture

We discussed in class how

We discussed in class how the brain contains 10^12 neurons. This idea is absolutely fascinating to me because that seems like such a huge amount. B ut it also helps to make sense of some other things. If there wasn't such a huge amount of neurons in our brain, I don't know that we would be as complex as we are. It also allows for the fact that we can produce outputs without any inputs. I think that the most interesting thing is that we produce internal inputs that allow us to do certain things. For example we can imagine doing something, and then we can in fact do it. I think that this is the most amzing part of our brains. If we didn't have so many neurons, I don;t think that any of this would be possible. Instead we would just be reactors instead of actors, in my opinion.

Antonia J's picture

Our brains' complexity.

I agree with Kirsten that the complexity of our brains explains why we ourselves are so complex... why our emotions, morals, intellect, etc, are so intense and can so often be in conflict. The complexity explains why internal struggles occur so often regarding our beliefs, feelings, and many other things. No wonder! 10^12. Pretty crazy.

I also think it's interesting that no human being has the same exact neurological make-up as any other human being. I think that this is evidence of the fact that all people are unique, that no one is the same. And this is both reassuring and a bit scary.

 And outputs without inputs... to be quite honest, I don't know what to think about that. Maybe, as Holly says, that this does not exist, and we merely are unable to see the input right now. Or maybe Kirsten is right in that we could call this our imagination. I would really like to explore this more in class, because I just don't understand how there can possibly be an output without an input.

I was also fascinated, as a side note, by the fact that the number of neurons in our brain is similar to the number of stars in the sky.... makes me wonder if perhaps there really is a pattern....?  (At least, I think that was what Professor Grobstein said... or did I get that wrong?) Shayna and I seem to agree on a lot of this stuff.... happy to see I'm not the only one thinking along these lines.

Claire Ceriani's picture

Daydreams

I like the metaphor of boxes within boxes (it is simultaneously simple and complex, which I think sums up many of our observations so far), and the idea that the brain is capable of creating outputs without inputs.  I don’t see how anyone can argue that every output requires an input when there are so many things our brains seem to do entirely on their own.  I was reminded of the article on sciam.com, “Escape from the Insipid: Our Brains May Be Wired for Daydreaming.”  I suppose one could argue that our dreams and daydreams are impacted by past experiences and knowledge, but it seems to me that our brains have an incredible ability for integrating these thoughts and experiences in very unique ways, putting an entirely original perspective on everything.  Every person’s perspective is a unique creation of their brain.

 

I know a neurosurgeon who had chosen that career path even before high school.  I asked him recently why he was so instantly drawn to the brain and why he is so fascinated by it.  His answer: “Because I don’t understand it at all.”  I think that’s something you have to accept for all of these issues, but it only makes them more interesting.

Anonymous's picture

Do dreams require inputs?

The ideas of daydreams and dreams are very interesting to me. In some ways I have a hard time applying the boxes within boxes model of the nervous system to dreams. I often find myself trying to deconstruct my dreams or dreams that other people describe to me by relating them to real life events. If I can remember a strange, vivid dream I like to try to figure out what caused it. More specifically, I compare the events in my dreams to the events that have occurred in my real life. It's my way of making sense of dreams that seem to combine oddly paired situations and people. Most of the time I can come up with something. Even when a dream doesn't resemble an event that happened in my life recently I can sometimes figure out an emotion I've been feeling in which my dream is likely rooted. Therefore, the idea of boxes within boxes or outputs without inputs is difficult to apply. It seems like I can almost always find something that triggered a dream. On the other hand, there are sometimes details that are hard to remember. Maybe these details are a creation of the brain. But then again, the brain is basing these details on some sort of knowledge or perception that has been stored within it. So maybe boxes within boxes can be thought of as storage spaces where things like the details of our dreams are kept.

On a separate note, there has been some discussion about the idea of reality being a creation of the brain. For example, if there would be no sky if my brain didn't perceive or create a sky but there is a sky because my brain does pereive it. But if I have a dream about a forest is there a forest? My brain is creating the forest. Is that the same as perceiving a forest? My brain is still creating something. How is that different in a dream? What makes one forest real and not the other?

James Pena

Alex Hansen's picture

Although it does not

Although it does not exactly follow in response to your post, the topic of daydreams led me to contemplate the role of input and output in a trail of thoughts.  Sometimes as I daydream or just think about some topic, I seem to go from one idea to another and then another and so on, and by the time I reach my final thought I often am not able to remember how I that idea once originated from my initial idea. 

A trail of thoughts can be considered to be a series of inputs and outputs with each output essentially becoming a new input for the next output.  Each input has the ability to lead to a few different outputs, and as one is choosen, a certain path is created just as a path is created in the box diagrams.  Input A leads to some output, and then that output leads to some other output.  Thus, you can trace from one thought to the next, just as you can trace from one input to the next input/output.  However, if you look at the final output and the initial input without looking at the middle section, it is often difficult to understand how you arrived at that output and thus you must trace backwards from the output or trace forwards from the input. 

Such seems to occur for daydreams/thought trains as well.  It is often difficult to understand how idea A somehow turned into idea Z.  Therefore, you have to trace backwards from idea Z figuring out what idea lead to the next until you come to the original idea A.  Although these mixes trail of thoughts are not trails of neurons, they can be thought of as similar to these neurons that produce box diagrams with inputs and outputs that may or maynot need or produce the other in that output B may not need input A in order to be produced.  For example, an idea might have come from a previous idea, but that previous idea maynot be needed in order to produce this idea, another different idea might have been able to produce it or maybe no input from the external world, no idea was needed.  Thus, just as the nervous system should not be thought of as a stimulus response, this thought trail should not be thought of as a stimulus response as well.  Thought trails resemble the nervous system.

francescamarangell's picture

Behavior and Addiction

 

Behavior and the brain are so deeply interconnected in ways that scientists can’t always explain. I read an article from last week about addiction in the New York Times titled, “Damage to part of the brain appears to end urge to smoke.” The article described how a man who suffered a stroke, and consequently damage to a portion of his brain, lost all desire to continue smoking. It had nothing to do with wanting to quit because of his health; he simply didn’t feel the urge. Scientists conducted a study regarding this case and several others just like it and they found that addictive behaviors show origins nestled in a specific region, the insula. It’s been linked not only to smoking but to all addictive behaviors. I find it interesting to think that the output functions for all addictive behaviors can be wrapped up in one designated location of the brain. As I read this article, I was thinking about our class discussion on input-output systems, and how does this situation fit into the input-output spaghetti-bowl or box inside box models. I wonder if all addictions are processed the same way within the brain, because they share a common origin and show similar signs of activity on MRI tests. If this were true then this could be an example where the same input of information leads to two separate outputs. The same addictive signals processed in the brain could potentially result in one person smoking a cigarette and another biting their nails. This variation on outputs fits into our discussion on the individual and how the 10^12 + neurons in our brains create the individual person with unique learned and innate behaviors that we are.

 

Shayna's picture

My Possibilities Are Endless Like the Sky

What captivated me in class last Thursday was the fact that there are trillions upon trillions of ways in which the neurons can configure themselves and, thus, no two configurations are 100% alike. That is an amazing idea. Furthermore, someone stated in class that this rule applies to clones!!! This is an empowering idea because it lets me know that no one can deny my uniqueness and individual expression of it.

Another thing that fascinated me was the concept that there are at least 10^12 neurons in my body and at least 10^12 stars in our solar system. That means, that my configuration mirrors that of the solar system. Does that mean my function and behavior mirrors that of the Milky Way, too? I would like to think so.

That leads to another important question: If the brain is a series of input/output boxes inside of input/output boxes inside of input/output boxes and so on, does this series of boxes continue onto 10^ -infinity or 10^infinity or is there a finite number? And if so, does that mean there is a starting or ending point to the Universe's behavior--more precisely--ability? If there isn't a starting point and ending point to the Universe's behavior and if I am a mirror of the Universe, then there is no limit to my behavior--or more interestingly--ability.

leigh urbschat's picture

Possibilities Really Endless?

As a comment on your last question I think you need to consider what those "input/output boxes" are made up of. Each input/output box is made up of collections of neurons. As the chain continues with input/output boxes made up of input/output boxes we must note that the single-celled neuron is the finite end to this ongoing chain. Although it is quite inspiring to compare the possibilities of your brain with that of the universe, we need to recognize that our brains weigh around 3 lbs and have a finite mass. The mass of the universe I cannot begin to guess nor the distances it spans.

In other words, I can see where you're coming from when you say that the amount of neurons in the brain leads to the unique people we all are. However, I think that it is naive to think that this same fact makes one's behavior and ability limitless. I think in the forum from last week people described their weaknesses and limits while asking if by working on these weaknesses if they would really change their character. Just by acknowledging these weaknesses we can see that the possibilities are finite.

Darlene Forde's picture

What if our brain is a prototype of the universe(or vice versa)?

Shayna,

Like you I was also intrigued by the parallels between the nervous system and the universe. How can we reinterpret the nervous system in the language of the universe? Are solar systems like neurons? What can each system teach/inform us about each other? Are planets nothing more thant constituent parts of a "Universal body" that can only barely be conceived?

D

JaymElaine's picture

All of Our Behavior from 10^12 Neurons? Well...

 The brain is a phenomenal machine. It produces input, forms and conducts outputs, makes decisions, learns, behaves.....it does a lot of stuff. The brain is made up of many neurons, billions in fact; I would say that there is about 10^12 of them in all, and counting. And yes, while we are on the hot topic of behavior and the brain’s phenomenal ways of performing such behaviors, it does make sense that behavior is exclusively the result of the brain’s billions and billions of neurons. Perhaps, we can use this explanation to understand why one human being may perform a similar action as another human being, or why one ant would do the same thing that another ant would do. For example, I scratch my head when it itches just as if someone else would scratch their head if it itches. The neurons in both of our brains are telling us the same thing, "scratch your head!" If we both have neurons that control our behavior exclusively, than we would both do the same things in response to an input. However, let us think about such things as freewill, personality, and choice. If behavior was truly controlled by our neurons and our neurons only, would these aspects of our lives even exist? In this case, I suppose that we could use the excuse that the neural connections between neurons are what give us variability in decision-making. Instead of me scratching my head when itches, like my comrade just did, I pat my head instead. This model seems....ok. But something is missing. I just do not seem to be able to account for such things as personality and freewill. Variability in our neural connections does not completely justify these aspects of the brain, or should I say, the mind. If we were nothing but neurons and connections we would be more like robots, would we not?

 

Jayme E. Hopkins, '08

James Damascus's picture

Response

I would agree that 10^12 neurons allow for all of the complex thoughts, behaviors and tendencies people exhibit. While afferent neurons, such as those sending signals to Jayme's brain (to let her know she's itchy) might be comparably similar in their arrangement, structure and function from person to person, the self contained inter-neurons, which we learned on Thursday compose some 99.9% of our neuronal cells, may be comparably more heterogeneous, meaning that there is potentially more variation in their geometrical arrangement, physiology and cellular density across organisms as compared with afferent/efferent neurons (if for no other reason than there being so many more non-afferent/efferent cells) . Also, if the morphological structure of our brain cells change with accrued experiences and learning, then it follows logically that our afferent/efferent connections would be comparably more similar across healthy bodies than our inter-neuronal system.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I also think that the distinction we made in class between the spaghetti (stimulus-driven) model and the “boxes within boxes” model, was meant to suggest that the brain is a generative and in some sense-autonomous organ, meaning that it is capable of generating complex outputs involved in such things as thought and decision-making. It is my opinion that the second model of the brain suggests sufficient complexity and interface to be responsible for such actions as choice, moral judgments etc. It may be the case (as Jayme might suggest) that the distinctions we draw between mind and brain-linked processes actually demarcate the areas of brain structure and function that we do and do not understand in an empirical fashion.That said, things are not entirely cut-and-dry. I'm not sure what to make of 10^12 neurons firing chaotically to produce crystal clear images and thought processes- there must be an extraordinarily complex interface at play.                                 

Cayla McNally's picture

Vastness of the Brain

While I really enjoy this class, the vastness of the human nervous system makes me wonder what it can actually teach us, other than that the brain is far too complex to ever be minimally understood. Not only are there innumerable inputs and outputs that can occur in any given situation, there is no indication that there is any relation between them; that is, the same input repeated 3 times has the possibility of resulting in 3 completely different outputs. This is further complicated by the idea of “boxes all the way down,” especially due to the fact that no one knows what processes occur within the boxes, and how they affect the outputs. There are infinite combinations of inputs and outputs in the brain, which leads me to doubt that scientists will be able to do much more than scratch the surface when dealing with the functions of the brain.

A.Kyan's picture

mind/brain/behavior

Thank you for posting the article about “false pregnancies.”  It was not only fascinating, but also relevant to our exploration of the mind/brain/behavior.  The entry on “How the brain rewires itself” stated: it’s the brain that is affecting the behavior more so than the mind.  On the contrary, I believe it is the mind that has conjured up these desires, which then affects the brain and the body (much like psychosomatic diseases that are caused by a chaotic mind.) The doctor in this article explained the unusual phenomena with the mind-body feedback loop: “an emotional state inducing abnormal hormone secretion, which in turn has its own physical and psychological effects”.  I’m very interested in seeing more studies take this approach psychological/neurobiological diseases.  If we can further prove the effects the mind has the brain, maybe there’ll be a better argument that these conditions are caused by the mind, and not just creations of the brain.  

 

I believe that certain chronic diseases can be alleviated and cured by changing one’s thinking.  For example, optimism isn’t an automatic response of the brain.  It’s something you learn, develop, or choose to do.  This in term helps your overall physical and psychological well-being.  Not believing that we can take control over our brain is shaky grounds.  It lets us off the hook from being responsible for our behavior.  Blame a bad brain, and what options do you have left?  Meds?  An insanity plea?  Taking responsibility of how our mind/brain/behavior operates is a way of being free from harm to yourself and others.

AnnaM's picture

Last week's discussion of

Last week's discussion of the New York Times article on superstitious behavior and magical thinking got me wondering....

A Bryn Mawr alum friend of mine is going to have surgery soon to remove a part of a gland that may or may not be cancerous. But my first reaction upon hearing this was not to worry (although that came later); I thought immediately "I need to leave an offering to Athena for her!" What exactly would this offering to Athena do? Almost nothing at all from a medical standpoint; that's what the surgery is for, right? But from the perspective of a concerned and ultimately pretty powerless friend, leaving offerings to Athena feels like doing my part, however small.

And then I read the Times article. "Magical thinking"--behaviors like leaving offerings to Athena--occurs most often when people feel most helpless, it claims. So now my need to leave an offering makes more sense; because I can't do anything that would help in the medical sense now, I resort to superstition. But now, think about how superstitions and magical thinking are reinforced. You perform an action (like leaving an offering) once-the input. After you leave the offering, the desired event happens-you pass your test, your friend turns out to be okay-that's the output. Logically, there's no reason why adding the same input every time should lead to the same output. But you keep leaving offerings every time. If the desired event happens, your offerings helped. If it doesn't, then you may have left the wrong offerings, not left them soon enough-anything but the logical explanation.

 

This principle is called a variable schedule of reinforcement, and it's well known in psychology as a great way to enforce behaviors; among other things, it's what makes gambling so addictive. But I'm wondering if this principle can be applied to the nervous system too. The brain leads up to perform certain actions-inputs. Most of the time those actions produce one certain output, but in certain circumstances they produce others-a variable schedule of reinforcement. Because the actual output depends on a wide range of variables that we may or may not completely understand, we keep performing the actions over and over, hoping for the output we desire.

People talk so much about predictable outputs from certain inputs, but maybe it's the variable reinforcement that ultimately influences our behaviors more.

 

Molly Tamulevich's picture

visualization

I was really interested in that article as well. Remember the bubbles above the people's heads when they were invoking their own magical thinking? I was a little dismissive of them until I read the one woman's thoughts about visualizing her problems away. I have recently become very interested in the process of visualization. I have a hard time staying focused on goals and get distracted easily. By visualizing the outcome of a task, I find that I complete it easier. I have heard that this can also work, not just as an exercise in concentration, but as a method of directing your entire life, whether it applies to health, prosperity or relationships. I know for a fact that focusing and envisioning my homework done or my room clean is a great way for me to accomplish the challenge. Is visualization a valid way of influencing the future? This goes back to the original argument of 'if thoughts are composed of something that is immaterial, how can they have an effect on the material body?' If I visualize myself healing, not feeling pain, recovering from illness, how can something as intangible as a thought have an effect on my physical well-being. This being said, it has been reported over and over again, and the connection between mind and body is much more important in other systems of healing such as moxabustion, acupuncture, massage and homeopathy. Is it magic or is it just an aspect of our perception that we have not yet learned to measure? Seizures were once magic, as were many other processes that we understand with the aid of new technology. What's to say that the healing power of visualization cannot be measured in the future?

Sarah Powers's picture

Too Many To Count

In the last class we discussed the immenseness that is the nervous system. It is made up for too many neurons to count--the number is most likely inconcievable.  We also came to the conclusion that since there are so many neurons there aren't two brains that could be identical.So isn't amazing that we are so much alike?With the infinite number on connections between neurons, we somehow manage to end up very similar to the person sitting next to us.  You can look at a picture of a bird and know it's a picture, not a real bird. I can do the same thing. We both have the same mechanism to perceive 3D from 2D.  And that is only one example of how my brain is similar to yours. Fun Fact (from Time Magazine 1/29/07): The genes used in the development and functioning of the brain in mice and humans are 90% the same.So this similarity is not only from human to human either.  So much brain research is performed on rats and other small mammals--and that can tell us about the human brain. Using the boxes within boxes model, this makes sense considering the smallest box we're considering is the same.Our differences are incredible, but it's the similarities that interest me the most.

Holly Stewart's picture

The Flipside: Looking at Human Differences

Sarah, I really like what you said about similarities, but I am going to take a different angle. Equally as powerful as looking at how similar we are is looking at how different we are. I took a class on vertebrate evolution over the last couple hundred million years and the idea of conservation was stressed. Natural selection finds a pattern that works for it and it uses it over and over again. It might change size (mice vs. elephants) or location (fish vs. toads), but all in all we are pretty predictable when it comes to development (and of course including our brains). And not to discount the amazing fact that the development and functioning in mice and human brains is 90% the same, but honestly, it doesn’t really surprise me.

But what about that last 10%? That is really what I am interested in. What is it about the 10% of our brains that is different that distinguishes not only humans from one another but humans from mice and all the other vertebrates that are out there. Is there some gene/molecule/essence/whatever in that last 10% that is “human?” Here is where I think we get back to the good ol’ nature versus nurture debate. We all learned to draw, but what is it that makes me not be able to color inside the lines? Is it because I was raised in that way or is it because there is something in that last part that distinguishes me from those that can color in the lines? I think there must be something in that 10%. Something that distinguishes me from you and distinguishes the frog from the bird, and I think that 10% is exposed and expressed in different ways depending on development both inside and outside of the womb. I think we are looking at two sides of the same coin: you at the similarities and me at the distinctive attributes of what makes us human.

dmckeever's picture

Amazed - yes...Surprised - no

Sarah-  your post got me thinking/referring to what I am learning in Psychology right now. This statement led me right to perceptive system that we unconsciously employ to merely exist in, respond to,  and interact with our environment: “You can look at a picture of a bird and know it's a picture, not a real bird. I can do the same thing.” Now, you say isn’t it amazing that we are so much the same, and use this as  an example. I am not at all arguing with you, because it is amazing, or challenging your post in any way. But, this doesn’t surprise me at all (and I am using “amaze” and “surprise” as two very different words here). We as humans must interact with one another and in order to do so, we need to be able to communicate and relate to each other. Now, if our brains weren’t able to process information in the same manner (which in no way means we would necessarily experience everything in the same way), then how would these necessary interactions transpire? I am thinking specifically of people with disabilities, such as a learning disability, and the difficulty they find in communicating something or understanding something because their brains don’t process the information the same way mine does, or yours does.This idea of recognizing a picture as just that is answering the “What is it?” question of perception. And, we all need to have  that same pathway for perceiving and answering that question so that we can coexist and so that you don’t sit quietly admiring the picture of the bird while I go  up to  the frame and try to pet the bird,  and  then  wonder why  the sensation of its feathers is different than when I stroke my parakeet.

When it comes down to it, I think that though the  neurons are connected in an infinite number of ways and so the make-up of the brain (structurally, at the neuron level) is not the same from me to you, I think the functions of all of these parts IS the same, and so similarities will occur in perception of the world. It’s like a deck of cards—you can shuffle them up and deal  a different hand to every player, but when it comes down to it, the ace  of spades is always the ace of spades (I acknowledge that this analogy is a bit flawed, seeing as how the ace of spades can serve a different function in every card game, but the point I am trying to make is that a motor neuron is always a motor neuron and has the qualities of a motor neuron no matter where it is in the brain, just as the ace of  spades has the qualities of the ace of  spades no matter where it is in the  deck.)

katherine's picture

Memory

I read the same article in the New York Times called A Study of Memory Looks at Fact and Fiction as lrifkin about the debate over whether it is possible for humans to suppress painful memories only to remember them years later.  My initial reaction to this notion was that it was total hogwash.  How is it possible for you to totally forget something and then one day remember it out of the blue?  How do we know that these new memories aren’t the fabrication of someone’s over-active imagination?

Many researchers believe this condition is a social construction and argue that if this was possible, there would be documented cases of this condition dating back for centuries.  As it stands now, most of there seems to be a rise in the number of these cases in the 19th century.  That being said, our world has changed dramatically in the last few hundred years.  Perhaps we always had the ability to develop these conditions, but our environment did not stimulate the proper input.  After all, other conditions (totally unrelated to this kind) such as autism have dramatically increased in recent years.  Does this have something to do with our environment or the way we live?  The brain harbors vast uncharted territories.  Perhaps there is a break in the chain of boxes that results in this delayed response to these traumatic events.  Perhaps we have the ability to control inputs on a much greater level than we know or are able to comprehend. 

lrifkin's picture

Brain Space

The Science Times has become a lot more intriguing since I began taking this course!  This week, one of the articles I read was titled A Study of Memory Looks at Fact and Fiction.  The article was written by Benedict Carey and forced me to think about the models of the nervous system we described in class.  Carey writes about a recent study in which researches questioned the human capability to repress traumatic memories.  The researchers attempted to historically prove that the ability to temporarily forget certain memories is a “culture-bound syndrome,” rather than an actual neurological process.  These researchers, however, have been criticized for arriving at a conclusion before even beginning their study.  Other experts argue that there are in fact “real” cases of repressed memory both currently and that date as far back as to the days of the Greeks.This entire debate, often referred to as the “memory war,” has been revived as a popular subject of discussion due to the recent sexual abuse scandals between adults and children in the Roman Catholic Church.  Young, healthy individuals, prove to be a good example to demonstrate the link between trauma and forgetfulness.  Sexually abused children are often confused after receiving sexual advances from an adult they trust.  They may also be hurt, upset, and lonely.  These children’s brains often block their access to the painful memories, and then suddenly release them later in their lives. Whereas the brain will usually remember dangerous events, in order to prevent them from happening again, seemingly, it has the capability to break down memories that are too difficult to handle.  The brain, in effect, may have a built in survival mechanism.  In the article, this situation was explained as follows.  After an unwanted sexual advance, for example, a child may store this memory in a “neural drawer” with other confusing memories of youth.  Years later, the memory will surface, and the repulsiveness of the situation will be understood by the victim, thus causing an output of certain behaviors.This leads me to wonder about the Autonomy Model of the nervous system.  Although this model leaves room for inputs and outputs to not direct connect, and for living beings to react as they please, it does not explain suppressed memory.  How is it that one can have an experience, and then repress it rather than react to it until years later?  This is not simply a matter of forgetfulness, but rather a question of storage space.  Where do traumatic memories go for the periods of time when people block them?

AriannahM's picture

Memory Repression

I read the same article as “lrifkin” and I have also found the Science Times more relevant this semester! This article was particularly interesting to me because it used literature to trace the history of memory repression. One of the scientists argued that if memory repression was real, then it would have been written about in literature before the 1800s. Scientists argue that dangerous memories are remembered more vividly for survival purposes: “The scientific dispute is over what constitutes normal forgetting. Studies show that healthy people usually remember frightening or dangerous incidents more vividly than other experiences: the brain preserves these impressions because they are important for survival” (Carey 2007). Perhaps, traumatic memories are not repressed automatically, but instead intentionally “put away” by the individual. The researchers bring up this point by saying: “The brain stores the memory, stuffed into a neural drawer with a thousand other mysteries of childhood, until years later, when the repulsiveness of the act suddenly hits the person, now an adult” (Carey 2007). This point ties into input and output. When discussing input and output in class, we never discussed the amount of time it took to get from stimulus and response. Repression brings up the issue of time… could it take years to get from a stimulus to a response?

Lauren Poon's picture

The Unconscious

In my Introductory Biology class, I read a section about the brain controlling which muscle fibers are stimulated in a muscle. One motor unit connects to the brain and to several muscle fibers within a muscle. When sitting upright, back muscles are partially contracted, meaning that some muscle fibers with in the muscle are not contracted while others are. The brain alternates activation among the many motor units that contract these certain muscle fibers. In doing so, the brain prevents muscle fatigue so that the organism can remain upright for a longer period of time before feeling fatigue. The organism, however, is unaware of the brain’s “decision” to alternate motor unit activation. In this case, output seems to be generated with no input. However, I propose that the brain creates an input for reasons unknown to the organism’s conscious mind, but known to the brain. This kind of internal reasoning or unconscious reasoning is the input that creates the output.

In the back muscle example, the brain is acting on reasons unknown to the conscious person. The person can’t feel the fatigue in their muscle fibers, yet the brain notices it and switches to different muscle fibers in the back.

In our class example of the cricket sometimes chirping when no female is presents, perhaps there is some other input in his mind that he associates with the female, hence the chirping. This input could be a product of conditioning, of anticipation, or of the unconscious. If the cricket chirps for reason’s that he’s unconscious of, it could be something his body is telling him or a prediction about what is to come. He’s consciously unaware of it, despite his brain's awareness. Could his mind and body be sensing something that he isn’t aware of? Is the unconscious a type of input that conveys an output?

secaldwe's picture

That feeling inside...

I’ve been thinking about crickets lately.  It may be because I was always under the false impression that you could get a cricket to chirp just by turning off the lights (a half-truth they told us in elementary school) but I am still trying to work out the input/output conundrum.  Lauren offered “perhaps there is some other input in his mind that he associates with the female, hence the chirping. This input could be a product of conditioning, of anticipation, or of the unconscious…He’s consciously unaware of it, despite his brain's awareness. Could his mind and body be sensing something that he isn’t aware of? Is the unconscious a type of input that conveys an output?”  Frankly Lauren, I have no idea.  This is very interesting to me and I’m sure to a lot of other people as well. 

Would it be helpful to think of male chirping in terms of “types” of chirps?  Is there a spectrum of “meaning” (and by meaning, I mean function) behind volume and frequency of the noise depending on varying inputs?  For example, I was browsing through some random webpages on cricket behavior and on http://insected.arizona.edu/cricketinfo.htm I found a useful observation: “Male songs can be quite loud.”  Does the chirping increase in volume when there is no female response?  How long would one need to observe a male cricket without a female input to spark this behavior in order to see?  What happens when the brain finally tells the lonely male to shut the heck up because there’s no booty in sight tonight?  If Lauren is correct and crickets are capable of anticipating a biological function, do our observations provide new answers to questions we don’t yet know how to pose? 

If it helps to talk in human terms about involuntary behavior, how about those recent studies that found women are more likely to bare their legs when they’re ovulating than during any other time of the month?  Seriously, who comes up with these?  Seems to me that ovulating human females are equivalent to the male crickets chirping for absent females – they are unconscious actions based on some inner unknown trigger with one goal in mind: procreation, perhaps the strongest biological drive.  Any thoughts?     

RachelBrady's picture

       What is of

       What is of greatest interest to me in these arguments is that you both refer to the unconscious as something that could be perceived as being distinct from brain/ neurological function. Is stating that the above are unconscious actions ways of explaining what we can’t yet comprehend about the function of the nervous system, or are you making an inference to the soul and how it operates with the brain?

csandrinic's picture

Placebos

After reading Stacy’s post about pseudocyesis, I began to think about other examples of specific outputs that were created without the introduction of those inputs attributed to them. In my opinion, the use of placebos in experimental research is a perfect example of this phenomenon. Placebos are considered to be inert or ineffective treatments or formulations that are usually administered in drug test studies to a certain sample or people, while another sample receives the actual drug. However, it has been discovered that placebos are only inert or ineffective in the sense that they have no known cause and effect relationship with any of the pre-designated outcomes of the active and proven-efficacious medecine that might have otherwise been used. In fact, around one third of people taking placebos for complaints (including pain, headache and seasickness) are estimated to experience relief from symptoms. The effect on the individuals who are administered these placebos is called the placebo effect. This is triggered by the person's belief in the treatment and their expectation of feeling better, rather than the specific form the placebo takes.

  The placebo effect is particularly pertinent in this discussion of input and output, because it presents a challenge to the ‘spaghetti’ box model, which assumes that if you introduce stimulus A, you will end up with response A. In the case of placebos, the patient is being told that he or she is receiving stimulus A (a certain drug or treatment) when in fact he or she is being administered stimulus B (and ‘sugar pill’ or inert substance), which equates more or less to no input, since the substance is inactive. Rather than exhibiting response B (nothing happens) or producing no input at all, in many cases the patient will exhibit the same response to the placebo that those who are taking the actual effective substance exhibited (response A). In other words, it is possible for there to be an output without there having been any related input. This allows us to continue to dismiss the ‘spaghetti’ box model and validate the ‘autonomy’ boxes-within-boxes model. 

 What I appreciate most about the placebo effect is what it suggests about the power of the brain. Research has shown that the brain responds to an imagined scene in very much the same way as it responds to an actual visualized scene. Is it therefore possible for the brain to change its chemistry simply by believing that it is receiving a certain stimulus? Research would suggest yes. There is, however, something that I discovered that makes the whole input/output problem all the more complicated. Certain researchers believe that part of the reason why placebos actually work to cure patients’ symptoms is because of what is known as conditioning, a type of associative learning where the subject learns to associate a particular stimulus with a particular response. In other words, if a patient has been conditioned to think that as soon as he takes, say, Benadryl his headaches will go away, he has a higher chance of feeling a relief in symptoms after he takes what he is told is a Benadryl, even if it is not. Similarly, he will display undesirable reactions/ responses to the 'medication', such as drowsiness, etc. because he assumes that these are the side effects he should experience (this phenomenon is known as nocebo). What fascinates me the most about this theory is that it seems to incorporate both the ‘spaghetti’ and the ‘autonomy’ model. Could it be that the ‘autonomy’ model in this case becomes plausible only because the patient has been conditioned to think in terms of the ‘spaghetti’ model? Could it be that the brain’s belief that stimulus A will incite response A actually produces response A? I think it is necessary to look further into this issue, as well as to investigate why certain individuals will respond positively to a placebo pill while others will not.    

alexandra mnuskin's picture

Back to Emily Dickinson

Learning about the different ways of perceiving the nervous system seems to have led me back to Emily Dickinson. I think if Emily Dickinson had known what we now know today she wouldn’t have been in the least surprised. The fact that the brain can produce outputs without any external inputs would not, I think, surprise her. If we believe Emily Dickinson to be right, if everything we perceive is just a function of the brain, then really there should be no difference between external and internal inputs. What the brain perceives and what the brain thinks it perceives is one and the same. It explains why the leech nervous system can think it is swimming when it is detached from the actual leech and no outside stimulus is possible. It explains why you can wake up from a nightmare with your heart racing and cold sweat pouring down your neck in the same way it would if you had really just been pursued by some terrible entity. So perhaps, the great poet is right. Everything is just a function of the brain. To the brain the dream is just as real and just as significant as physical outside input. I’m not sure if I believe it entirely. However I am slowly realizing the grandeur of the idea.

Student's picture

inputs/outputs

I've been thinking about inputs and outputs in relation to thought and thought process.  If our brain is the most control center, forming our thoughts and ideas, then the role of inputs and outputs must be central to this.  I started to wonder about these inputs and outputs, and their exact roles in the thought process.  Is an original thought what's created as an output, with no input?  This would mean that it came from ourselves, with no outside input, and so it would make sense that this would be more unique that the output of an input.  We observe our surroundings, taking in what we can, presumingly as one form of input or another, and then output seems to be our brain's response to these inputs.. but these outputs that happen without inputs- or vice versa- must have some great significance in showing the way we think, the ideas that run through our heads, without other influence.. or.. maybe the inputs and outputs of past reactions are stored in the brain, and from these experiences is where we can draw originality- where we can formulate our own ideas, where these inputs come without outputs, o outputs without inputs.  Maybe the inputs and outputs together formulate ideas, but with direct outside influence..and maybe that's the difference between the outputs related to no particular input, or vice-versa, and inputs directly related to outputs. 

Darlene Forde's picture

inputs/outputs get complicated—glia as wire boxes?

So far we have been discussing the nervous system as an input/output system. In this model, neurons have served as “boxes” and glia as wires connecting these boxes. However, recent advances in the neurobiology have complicated this picture. In a 2004 article in Scientific American “The other half of the brain: mounting evidence suggests that glial cells, overlooked for half a century, may be nearly as critical to thinking and learning as neurons are,” author R Douglas Fields discussed the significance of glia in the nervous system. Formerly associated with maintenance and support, there is now evidence to suggest that neurons and glia “talk” with one another.

“Glia influence the formation of synapses and help to determine which neural connections get stronger and weaker overtime; such changes are essential to learning and to storing long-term memories. And the most recent work shows that glia also communicate among themselves, in a separate but parallel network to the neural network.” (p.55)

If this recent work is true, it has profound implications for the development of input/output models of the nervous system. It also offers explanations that could account for the Harvard Law of Behavior. Should we think of two sets of input/output system tied together each offering feedback for the other with one set for neurons and glia respectively?

Neurons have been the actors on under the stage lights garnering most of the attention from scientist in the audience, but glia are not merely the unneeded stage hands. Outnumbering mainstage neurons by nine to one, glia also help actors who have forgotten their lines. By communicating with neurons and with each other through chemical signals, glia can also help guide axon regeneration and formation of synaptic connections, suggesting that a more apt description of glia would be unseen directors who insure that neurons function effectively.

In short, glia may play a crucial role in the formation of memories, in the way we behave and in the way we learn, (Einstein, for example is know to have had a unusually high concentration of glia in the association cortex part of the brain.) This forces us to ask new questions. Can we explain the 10% of animals who respond differently to the same stimuli to input received by neurons from glia? If so, how should we adapt our input/output model? Shall we simply apply integrate two sets of input/output systems?

“The other half of the Brain: Mounting evidence suggests that glial cells, overlooked for half a century, may be nearly as critical to thinking and learning as neurons are.” Scientific American March 22,2004 p.55

RachelBrady's picture

Original Thought and the Nervous System

     This idea of original thought seems to baffle me. What is an original thought, and can it only be composed of other original ideas to be an original thought? I, myself, have never thought or dreamed of anything so outside of what I know to be true to call it an original thought. I’ve never pondered of something that was free of preconceived notions. In Descartes’ Mediations, he uses an analogy to link dreams and reality that I think would like to apply here. In the painter’s analogy we understand that a painting has been created independent of things the painter has seen. For instance a satyr would be composed of a human and a goat, both of which the painter has seen, but has put the halves together to create an entirely new creature. Even if the figures are independent of what the painter would find in ‘reality’, the colors and the reflection of like come from what the painter has seen.

     This may be taking Descartes’ idea out of context, but I think he was on to something in regards to the function of the brain. Have you ever thought of something that wasn’t based on anything you knew to be true, and thought of it as viable? There is a certain connection here between what we think and what we believe to be true, even if the new thought isn’t entirely based on truth. But what is the process of knowing something? If our brain is the result of cephalization of the nervous system, then it is part of the nervous system; and the definition we have come to except, at this point in the class, of the nervous system is a series of boxes within boxes of which follow the process of input/output, where is the information retained. If neurons are only capable of generating, transmitting and receiving action potentials to relay electrical and chemical information, how can it then be ‘stored’ in a way that we can draw on it in our thoughts? And is it this retention of information that makes us independent from all other creatures?

Juli Magnifico's picture

Innovation.

The fact that we are able to conceive of ideas that have never before been thought of is baffling to me as well. It's a difficult concept to grasp, especially after thinking of the brain as a system of inputs and outputs. But I agree that an original thought could be an output without an input causing it to occur. I also agree that original thought can come about via something like Descartes' "painter analogy". At this point in the course, I think you could probably tell me anything about how the brain deals with originality, dreams, memory etc. because we've really only begun to scratch the surface. The vast majority of us have also been walking around with preconceived notions in our heads as to why we function the way we do, and since so little has been proven to be absolutely true about our brain function, each question we try to answer begs yet another question. For example, the mother of all questions: is there such a thing as absolute truth?

In other news...

Before I began reading your post Rachel, I read an article in The Washington Times about the questions scientists have about the existence of photographic memory. While they believe it to be an anomaly of sorts, there is some historical "truth" behind it. This guy, Mr. Davis, is the president of something called "Mercury Learning Systems" in MN, which is a program that he hopes will help people to increase their ability to store (remember) important information in the form of images. With this ability perfected, he also believes that like Leonardo da Vinci, who envisioned and drafted plans for what we know today as the helicopter, normal human beings will be able to access the genius within them. In response to this belief, a prof. of neurology and psychiatry pinpoints the hippocampus as "the part of the brain that allows a person to put together fragments of information [and] seems to play an orchestrating role in human memory." I would add to that: ...an orchestrating role in human memory and originality. So maybe Descartes did have a point. If so, is our ability to be innovative stemming from our ability to subconsciously take pieces of the information that we take in and store from our everyday lives and put them together in new ways? Would this mean that innovation could actually be due to a bunch of inputs creating one output? And the questions continue to continue...

Ian Morton's picture

"storing" information

I also find the nature of storing information very interesting. One study you may be interested to look up is one performed by Gross at al. in which they tested pattern recognition in monkeys. Gross studied the response of individual intertemporal cortex neurons of monkeys in response to very specific visual stimuli. For example, an individual neuron was monitored while a monkey was shown visual stimuli consisting of varying degrees of a monkey head (profile, ¾, etc.). Gross found that particular neurons would become excited in response to very particular images. For instance, one cell may respond to a 0º head-on image of a monkey face, while another would respond to a 100º face. This suggests that these individual intertemporal cortex neurons have been imprinted with different visual information can later be drawn from for recognition.

I would definitely like to learn more about the physical/chemical processes of learning and if anyone has any articles or insight into the matter please do post here or send me an e-mail (imorton@HC) as I may write a web paper on this topic.

Aditya's picture

Pre-Programmed Systems-->Brain=Behavior

In the introduction to the postings for this week Professor Grobstein is “looking forward to seeing what is on our minds this week” but after the discussions in class this week I am inclined to suggest changing that to what is on our brains.

 

In class we talked about when the nervous system of the leech was isolated from the rest of the body, it was still able to create a pattern of output similar to that emitted of when a leech is swimming. My interpretation of this is that there are systems pre-programmed into different regions of our brain, which are in control of our behavior. These are the little boxes that make up the big boxes which are able to create output without input. This to me is in support of the brain=behavior theory. If we have all these little boxes full of pre-programmed functions, all we need is a  big box of executive function to control which boxes are activated and when.

 

Some might argue that this executive function is the mind, but I think this executive function resides within one of the big boxes of the brain as research has shown perhaps in the frontal lobe as found from observations of frontal lobe damaged patients. One especially famous example in the psychology classrooms is Phineus Gage. After a rod shot through his frontal lobe, the connections from that box to his other boxes were disrupted, and he no longer produced the same outputs or behaviors. His brain was damaged, his interconnections between boxes were disrupted, his behavior changed proving brain = behavior, to me it is as simple as that.

 

Getting back to the outputs generated without inputs, it is important to question what is being taught to us and we might say, so what, a nervous system from a leech was able to generate outputs without inputs resembling swimming patterns. How transferable are observations from a leech brain to the human brain, after all they’re way of having a good time is sucking blood. Most of us probably behave very different from leeches and thus have very different brains.

 

 But this is definitely a start and also not the only thing able to generate outputs without inputs in vitro. The hippocampus, a part of the brain involved in consolidating memories and spatial navigation, can be isolated and kept alive in vitro apart from the rest of the brain. It is still able to perform its function of learning. Through instrumental conditioning, you can train slices to increase or decrease their rate of firing by rewarding them with dopamine. It can be trained to repeat that pattern of dopamine in expectancy of reward. This is an example of one of the boxes that is able to retain its pre-programmed function of learning apart from its connections in the brain, and also this hints at the analyzation abilities of the boxes. These observations can be made from slices in the rat brain, which is somewhat similar to the human brain and also add further support to the leech nervous system example suggesting pre-programmed systems in different parts of the brain.

 

In sum:

After learning about leeches in vitro, reading about the hippocampus in vitro, and remembering Phineus Gage, I think the brain has pre-programmed systems in different parts of the brain, which are activated from interconnections between all the parts of the brain and an executive system also in the brain. I am even more a believer of the brain being filled with interconnected boxes theory, and brain=behavior.

  

urbrainondrugs's picture

What if we could control output.

I read a book back in high school that I cannot quite remember the name of. It was about a boy who experienced seizures as a release. He apparently would feel nothing because the misfires in his brain caused his muscles to lock up and he experienced sensation of warmth and brilliant colors. And recently, while looking through some articles I chanced upon some information about epilepsy and epileptic seizures.

During adult seizures, the most common area to be affected is the mesial area of the brain. The mesial area is the middle part of the temporal lobe. This region encompasses the hippocampus, amigadala, and the uncus. The first two structures are in large control of emotions and the uncus is responsible for the processing of smells. Therefore when a seizure does occur, the neurons in this area misfire and do so rapidly. This often causes the rise of strong emotions such as fear or paranoia, and interestingly the sensation of the smell of burning rubber. The areas of the brain that are affected by epileptic seizures are usually pretty isolated as well. I assume this means that for each person with this neurological condition, will experience a seizure differently as well as uniquely. This makes me wonder about the possibilities of the brain. If there was a way for scientists to externally stimulate only certain parts of the brain and cause only specific neurons to fire, could we eventually control the human experience?

Different neurons sending signals change the way we process the information our brain receives. Understanding the patterns of misfire in the brain could allow us to help those with epilepsy. Not only would it open up a window for correcting the cause of these synaptic misfires, but it could make it possible to change the way an epileptic patient experienced a seizure. Rather than pain and paranoia, the brain could misfire in a way that was calm and harmless to the body.

Student Blogger's picture

Morality

In class, we briefly touched upon the subject of morality and I think it is an important subject to discuss seeing as how it is very pertinent to our daily lives as we encounter the Honor Code everyday.   I think it was Rebecca who defined morality as avoiding harm from coming to you and to others.  As we established in class, it is also a socially constructed idea and it is taught through interaction with others.  I agree with the both these points because a baby isn’t born with a sense of right and wrong.  The concepts of what is right and what is wrong are taught to us through school, our upbringing, and other external influences.  My perception of morality seems to be changing the longer I am at Bryn Mawr.  Prior to coming to college, my morals were relatively similar to those of my peers and I conformed to their ideas of what was right and wrong because they were my primary influence.  Now that I have come to a college that promotes a new way of thinking from one that I was used to in high school, I feel my morals are slowly evolving and becoming more specific to my new lifestyle.

 

x's picture

Controversy

I think Anisha is on to something here - something very controvertial and problematic. If morality is shaped by your surroundings, and not something inherent in human beings, where does that leave philiosophy? All major philosophical questions (are human inherently good or evil? what is the nature of humanity? etc etc) are explained by the simple explanation of inputs/outputs. Nature vs nurture becomes, obviously, nurture. This conclusion seems too easy and too simple, and if there something that Bryn Mawr has taught me, it is that something "true" usually has neither of those qualities.

I am also interested in the way people percieve morality, as Anisha hinted at, and that some people think of some acts as moral while the same act is blasphemous to others. Can this be simple input/output reactions? The non-science major in me wants somehow to explode this theory, but maybe life is not as complicated as I want to make it.

Caroline Wright's picture

"How the Brain Rewires Itself"

Usually I wouldn't search TIME Magazine for good scientific articles, but an issue from a few weeks ago has an entire section called "The Brain: A User's Guide." All of the articles were fascinating and in very easy-to-understand language, but one that stood out to me was entitled "How the Brain Rewires Itself." The author described an experiment done by neuroscientist Alvaro Pascual-Leone where he first took a group of subjects and had them practice the same piano excercise for five days. Then he took TMS tests (transcranial-magnetic-stimulation test) which showed the function of neurons being tested. In this case, it demonstrated that the part of the motor cortex that was in charge of dealing with these piano-playing finger movements had taken over surrounding area in the five days of practicing.

But the most interesting part of this experiment was in the second group he tested. In this test, instead of actually practicing PLAYING the paino, he has his subjects THINK about playing the piano for the same amount of time as the first group for five days. They were to visualize moving their fingers in the same way the first group would have, just without real movement. When he did the TMS test on these people. the results were surprising: the part of the motor-complex that controlled the finger movements had once again expanded and taken over adjoining areas of the brain.

In class the other day we talked about whether or not just htinking could actually change the structure of the brain (aside from consolidating memories, etc). This is proof that indeed, it can. In my opinion its a fascinating, but somewhat terrifying thought. What if you unconscoiusly are thinking of something enough that it changes the structure of your brain without your knowing? Is it possible for unconscoius thoughts, like dreams for example, to do this as well? If so than our minds and behavior could change without our even knowing it. It would seem that we have much less control that we may have thought we did. Its seems in this article, that Emily Dickinson is indeed right: we are a product of the brain as opposed to the other way around.

emilie's picture

I don't necessarily think

I don't necessarily think that rewiring the brain in such instances as Caroline mentioned would necessarily be a bad thing. In each instance, you are experiencing something different that I don't feel can really be of any harm. Perhaps if you experience a very traumatizing event and your brain is rewired so that you are less able to cope with future stressful events, then it could be harmful. But as far as unconcious experiences through dreams or other thoughts, I don't feel that this could be harmful.

This idea that the brain can be rewired is also a very important discovery for it shows that cognitive behavioral therapy can acutally be very successful for all of those people who may be skeptical. It also gives credibility to self help books and meditation and other such practices that seem to often cause controversy.

Stacy Blecher's picture

False pregnancy

After class I was searching the New York Times achieves and found an article that interested me.  Initially, I did not think it pertained to class discussion but found it so fascinating that I decided to read it anyway.  The article was about a disorder called pseudocyesis.  According to the article, this rare phenomena causes women to display practically all but three symptoms of being pregnant.  The only symptoms not displayed are heart tones from the fetus, visual representation of the fetus on an ultrasound, and the actual delivery of the baby.  However, women have experienced cessation of their menstrual cycle, morning sickness, enlarged belly, cravings, enlarged and lactating breasts and some even test positive on pregnancy tests. 

Physicians and psychiatrists have suggested that a woman’s extreme desire to have a baby of her own, or even to play a larger role in another’s pregnancy, can cause these symptoms to arise.  Yet, others have established that there are a variety of emotions that might spark the phenomenon.  When I read this, it reminded me of the short comings of the spaghetti box model of the brain.  If “stimulus A” is the desire to have a baby and every time “A” is stimulated it results in “response A” which is developing pseudocyesis then why is this condition so rare?  If there were the case then I should have experienced pseudocyesis about 100000 times because every time I see a happy couple with their baby at Starbucks or in the park etc. I get the desire to have a baby ( but then I quickly wipe that thought out of mind!)…Anyway, you get the idea.  The stimulation of “A” CLEARLY does not always lead to “response A” or pseudocyesis.  Similarly, “stimulus B”, anxiety, has also been found to result in “response A”.   

At the end of this article, a doctor is quoted as saying, “The pituitary gland is located right at the base of the brain, and that’s where all the hormones come from” in pregnancy, he said. “This is one of the classic examples in medicine of how the mind affects the rest of the body.”  Although I may just be being picky, I think that the doctor used a poor choice of words.  Brain, would have been a much better word to convey the message that he was trying to get across because he is attempting to explain the body’s response ( or behavior ) to an influx of hormones in the BRAIN not the mind.  I suppose that if one believed in something called “mind” that it could be responsible for the desire of other emotion that triggers the brain to produce an improper amount of hormones, but that’s a very roundabout way of saying it and I doubt that anyone understands what I’m trying to say here (Ugh!).  I have more to say about this and how it related to class but I need to think about it a little more before I actually write.  I just wanted to throw this topic out there for discussion because I found it so bizarre and thought that many of you would be intrigued as well.

            And one last thought:  What is perception’s role in this phenomenon?  If people did not perceive the “pregnant” woman as being such, would she go through the 9 months of symptoms and try to deliver or would her feelings subside without positive reinforcement? 

Anonymous's picture

On bodies...

I think that is just amazing that men can experience this phenomenon as well. Were talking about how sometimes wanting a baby sooo much can lead your brain (or whatevs you think does it) to manifesting the symptoms of pregnancy in your body by relaseing hormones, but most often it doesn’t. Kinda following the box theory, the 'iwannababy' box gets stimulated somehow and then bam, your body makes hormones and you get this phenomenon (like Stacy was saying). But the fact that men get this as well is the reallly crazy part. I guess I’m kinda thinking that women’s bodies know what to do. We already have these levels of hormones and they already fluxate with our cycle, so falsely increasing the levels although weird, is normal. But mens bodies are in no way prepared to have a baby. For the brain to be convinced that the body can do something that it never ever would normally do is beyond me. I guess I’m just thinking that is okay for women to have the ‘iwannababy’ box but men shouldn’t. I guess the brain is just too powerful for the body.

I think this really ties into the placebo affect (as mentioned by csandrinic above). Its really the same thing going on. Your brain is convincing your body to change without receiving the correct stimulus ie drug (I guess who is to say what is correct tho eh). It like when your sick, if you want to get better, your going to get better faster then when you don’t. Another example of the brain totally controlling the body is in persons with multiple personality disorder (MPD for our use). In MPD each personality can have a different physical manifestation within the patient. For example they will have different blood pressure and heart rate. Even more extreme cases occur where one personality will cause the body to have diabetes and one wont. In this case, one box is definitely causing two different outputs, even though the brain is the same. I really don’t know what to make of this. I think its just amazing that the brain has so much control over your body. I think that if we can train ourselves to control this power, then we truly can control our bodies instead of this façade of command that we think we have now.

Jessica Wurtz's picture

More of false pregnancies

I found this topic very interesting, and I had actually seen something once about a girl who had convinced herself she was pregnant and showed some symptoms of pregnancy as well. Before I saw this post however, I was thinking about the boxes within boxes model of the nervous system and I came to realize that as impressive as this system of the nervous system is, what really astounded me is trying to wrap my head around the fact that this system is vastly different from person to person, thus making us each our own unique person.  This idea applies to the phenomenon of pseudocyesis because as was pointed out, not every person who wants to have a baby goes through pseudocyesis. As Stacy said, when you see a cute baby, many people think "oh how cute, I want one!" or how many kids when they were little played house or something and stuffed a pillow under their shirts to play the role of a pregnant woman. However, by and large, people who do this do not continue to exhibit symptoms of fase pregnancy.

This emphasizes the fact that each person's "boxes within boxes" nervous system would look different from every other person's if you could map it out or diagram it.  Then I got to thinking about where the differences are. In which level of box do the differences appear? Are they structural differences or is it determined purely by how the little boxes are arranged to make the bigger boxes? I don't even know if these questions make sense or not, but it interested me. The bottom line is that it is amazing how the same input such as seeing a cute baby can produce vastly different outputs depending on the person. Some people might say "thank goodness I don't have one of those" or "I want a baby" or "I want a baby" and then have a false pregnancy.

LS's picture

Pseudocyesis

         It is interesting that you bring this up, after reading a historical fiction novel on Queen Mary of Tudor (who was said to have pseudocyesis) I have been curious about “false pregnancies.”  I read the article that you read as well as other articles, The Journal of Family Practice listed three theories for this phenomena; Conflict Theory, Wish Fulfillment Theory and Depression Theory.  In Conflict and Depression theory it is suggested that an emotional upset (such as anxiety or depression) may cause changes in the endocrine system that causes the signs and symptoms of pregnancy.  Along the same lines as you suggested, I wonder exactly what type or how much “emotion up set” or input has to go into the system to get the out put of pseudocyesis.  We all seem to know or know of couples who want to get pregnant but just cannot seem to, these women and men (pseudocyesis can occur in men too!) all go through emotional upset, yet they do not have a false pregnancy.  So then what makes this phenomenon so rare?    

When thinking about the box model of the brain (boxes all the way down!) how can we try to understand pseudocyesis.  The individual obviously has some upset over the state of pregnancy.  We can say that this would be the input, what makes this input have the output of pseudocyesis?  Are there different boxes and different box connections in these specific individuals?  Perhaps some connections are stronger or go to different boxes.  Yet this seems like the behavior of “upset” is having an effect on the brain.  Can this actually cause the hormones produced by the brain to spike?  Is this a case where our behaviors can affect our brain?   

I am not quite sure where I am going with all this but (or if I am going anywhere but Stacy, I do agree with you that it is strange that the doctor in the article refers to the mind, after talking about the brain’s involvement.   In the article I also found that they referred to a “mind-body feed back loop.”  To me, it seems as though this article is endorsing the presence of a “mind” and that “just brain” simply does not equal behavior.  I think perhaps that they implied that there was a “mind-brain feedback loop.”  Can we suggest that this is evidence for a mind and its effects?  I am not sure.  The individual obviously has desire or fear of pregnant and them (according to the theories) something happens that causes a change in their hormones.  How come this change causes a false pregnancy?  Was it just change that this hormonal change happened to go along with the persons desires or fear to be pregnancy or was it just a random change that happened to cause pseudocyesis?    

Further I think perception does play a large role in this yet I am not sure what it is.  Obviously the woman perceives that she is pregnant, lots of women who get pseudocyesis have already been pregnant and they claim that it feels the same.  So for what ever reason the women perceives she is pregnant, I feel that others would perceive that she was pregnant too, just because no one is going to argue with a woman who looks pregnant that she is not.  But let’s say that they did.  I think that if others do not perceive the women as pregnant she may eventually stop perceiving herself as pregnant as well.  This may be what happened with Queen Mary, after her first “full term” false pregnancy no one believed her and her second false pregnancy only last a few months.  Yet, I think that your self perception is very strong, therefore if the woman vehemently perceives herself as pregnancy than the doubt of others may not cause the termination of the false pregnancy.