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Rich conversation last week. A few notes from it, for myself and anyone else interested ...

Emergent systems are "more than the sum of their parts," in the sense that the system as a whole displays properties that aren't displayed by any of the parts that make it up. AND those properties are "surprising," in the sense that they weren't "intended"/"designed." The solar system, ant colonies, human bodies, colleges, and cities all seem to fit this characterization to one or another degree.

But one needs to be careful about "one or another degree," as exemplified by cars, airplanes, and computers. These all have global properties that result from the interaction of parts not having those properties, but many of these global properties are clearly intended/designed while others are clearly not (recall defects, accidents, bugs). The same is true to a lesser degree of human bodies, colleges, and cities. So actually many systems are to one or another degree hybrid? And it isn't in general systems that are "emergent" sensu strictu but rather properties? So maybe there are emergent systems and then there are systems that reflect both design and emergence? Are there any systems that have no element of emergence at all? Computer programs/algorithms? Should "bugs" be thought of as "flaws" or "poor design" or as ... "emergent properties"?

Are we comfortable with cancer or psychosis as an emergent property, or do we want/need some additional criterion for "emergent"? Some "specialness" that makes the property "interesting"/"good"? Could there be such a property that is independent of a human observer? The problem is that requiring a property that depends on a human observer would suggest that there were no emergent phenomena prior to the appearance of humans in the universe, and that doesn't make much sense. So, are things emergent just because of new properties coming out of interactions, or is there something more? Something not dependent on humans? What might it be?

Looking forward to other's thoughts about our first conversation, and/or about From Complexity to Emergence and Beyond.

Addendum:

We agreed to leave "randomness" out of the discussion for the moment. Don't worry, we'll pick it up again in the not too distant future.