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CSF Leaks and Spontaneous Intracranial Hypotension
Biology 202, Spring 2005
First Web Papers
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CSF Leaks and Spontaneous Intracranial Hypotension
F Michaels
Spontaneous Intracranial Hypotension (SIH) is a condition where a patient gets postural headaches due to a leak of the Cerebrospinal Fluid (CSF) in the spinal membrane. (1) What happens is that the leak causes low CSF pressure within the nervous system, and thus causes a constant string of headaches to the patient. The problem with SIH is that it is very hard to diagnose and there is not a great deal of information on why it occurs. In 1995, a study showed that only one in fifty-thousand people in Minnesota had SIH. It also showed that SIH was more common in women than in men, and that the condition usually developed while the patient was between 40 and 60 years old. (5) When first researching this condition, my two main questions were: Why does it develop and can it be cured? In order to answer these questions, one must first examine how CSF runs through the body and the specific symptoms of SIH.
Cerebrospinal Fluid is formed in ventricles of the brain. It moves through the ventricles and leaves the brain at the base, underneath the cerebellum.(2) Then, the fluid moves into the spinal cord and the nerves, and finally returns to the brain. Throughout this time, the CSF is moving through a membrane, called the dura that surrounds the brain and spinal cord. The condition of Intracranial Hypotension (IH) develops when a rupture occurs in the membrane. Thus, the CSF leaks out of the dura, causing a dislocation of the brain downward and "pressure on pain-sensitive structures."(5) IH can develop as a result of brain surgery, spinal surgery, or any major trauma to the head. (3) However, as in the case of SIH, the rupture can sometimes occur spontaneously. In other words, there is no known cause for the rip in the dura. Some doctors speculate that the spontaneous tear is due to the initial weakness of the dura, or a traumatic event that went undetected; however there is not a great deal of information on this subject.(5)
The principal symptom of Spontaneous CSF leaks is headaches. The headaches only occur when the patient is upright, and gradually disappear when the patient is lying down. In most cases, the headaches gradually increase from the moment the patient wakes up in the morning. However, in other cases the headaches are quick and severe. The acuteness of the headaches varies in each case, which affects how quickly the condition is diagnosed. Some of the related symptoms of SIH are a loss of hearing, tinnitus, vertigo, stiffness of the neck, nausea, and even vomiting.(5)
Since the primary symptom of SIH is constant and severe headaches, it is often misdiagnosed. Unfortunately, misdiagnosis can increase the painful treatment for other conditions that imitate SIH (such as Chiari malformation) as well as the possibility for early treatment. In a study done by Dr. Wouter I. Schievink between 2001 and 2002, he found that 94% of patients who had SIH were initially misdiagnosed when they visited a doctor about their symptoms.(4) Some of the common treatments due to misdiagnosis included craniotomies (surgical incisions in the skull) and cerebral arteriographies (a procedure that uses an injection of dye and x-ray images to examine arteries in the brain). More than half the number of cases of SIH has been reported in the last decade.(5) Therefore, because SIH is so often misdiagnosed, it is not likely that there has been a drastic increase of the condition, but rather that more cases of it are being correctly diagnosed.
In some cases of SIH, the condition disappears as spontaneously as it appeared. Mild cases can be cured through a general increase in fluids, especially caffeine, and lots of rest. However, more serious cases will require a procedure called the epidural blood patch. This is a procedure where autologous blood is injected into the patient's lumbar spine. The blood travels through the spinal cord, finds the rupture in the dura, and clots the rupture. Success of the epidural blood patch in patients with IH can usually be determined immediately after the procedure. If it is not successful, the procedure can be repeated several times with a larger amount of blood injected (no more than 30 ml) and in many cases can lead to a permanent closing of the torn dura. (5)
However, in more severe cases of Spontaneous Intracranial Hypotension, the epidural blood patches that are injected into the lumbar spine are ineffective. At this point, an effort to locate the exact position of the rupture in the membrane can be made and then another epidural blood patch may be performed at that location.(5) This location-specific procedure is more effective than a regular epidural blood patch, and should cure the condition. However, there are a few cases where even this procedure is not successful. Further procedures to resolve the issue include an injection of fibrin glue into the specific location of the rupture and (in the most persistent cases) even surgery, both of which seem to cure the condition.(5)
In conclusion, Spontaneous Intracranial Hypotension is a very rare type of a Cerebrospinal Fluid leak, but unlike other types, it does not occur due to any specific traumatic event or surgical procedure in the nervous system. Although there is not much information on the possible causes of SIH, it is suspected that an intrinsic weakness of the spinal membrane or an abnormality of the brain structure causes the rare condition. The symptoms of SIH are so small and so common, that it can often be misdiagnosed. Therefore, the condition of SIH, although thought to be very rare, is probably more likely than one might think. So how can someone prevent SIH? Is there anything a person cando to prevent the rupture of the dura? Unfortunately, there is no clear answer because very little information exists as to the primary cause of the tear. All one can really do is avoid brain surgery or any head trauma that could trigger the onset of regular IH. Hopefully, as more observations are gathered about Spontaneous Intracranial Hypotension, the causes of it will be identified and the ways to help prevent it will become more apparent.
References
1)Abstract of two cases by T.A. Rando and R.A. Fishman, general information on SIH
2)Discovery Health: CSF leak, general information on Cerebrospinal Fluid leaks
3)University of Maryland Medical Center, general information on Cerebrospinal Fluid leaks
4)Archives of Neurology, Abstract of a study on the Misdiagnosis of SIH
5)Medscape: Spontaneous CSF leaks, A review by Dr. Wouter I. Schievink
Additional comments made prior to 2007
I
also have intracranial hypotension from two epidural shots for a lumbar
disc problem. The back problem is not so bad anymore but I still
suffer from moderate to severe head pressure 24/7. For two years
I was bedridden with this terrible ailment, unable to stand along with
many of the cranial nerve side effects (double vision, nausea,
radicular neuropathy). Three blood patches failed to
help....slowly over time I was able to do more. Myelograms and
cisternographies have not been able to see my leak, though my spinal
pressure was measured twice to be low, as well as my brain mris showing
enhancement. Though I am functional again I still have many
restrictions including exercise (frustraing as an ex-athlete). I'm
also a licensed nutritonist and your paper touches on some interesting
points....why doesn't the dura heal? The biggest obstacle with
this conditon is the difficulty with diagnosis because most doctors
believe the dura must heal in x amount of time and. So to accept that this doesn't occur with everyone is one problem and
then why it isn't healing is another. I wonder if certain
fundamental factors are missing relating to connective tissue.
Not necessarily one of the conventional connective tissue disorders but
something missing or interfering with attaining adequate amino acids to
fully optimize connective tissue sythesis/regeneration. At any
rate, this can be an unbelievably debilitating condition....check out
Mass General Hospital's neurology department's...brain forum and look
under csf leak diagnosis and you will see it is more common than
perhaps once thought. Plus these headaches are so not like migraine,
although it is not uncommon for migraines to develop on top of
them. These headaches/pressure are all about physics...an intense
pulling sensation..like G-forces pulling your head down. I'm praying
for more research....maybe better imaging to find smaller leaks.
Many thanks for your paper ... Cindy, 4 February 2006
My husband started w/ severe fatigue approx 4. months ago. The fatigue lessened,but he began having chronic headaches.He has had a headache now for about 3 months. Spinal tap results came back as low pressure and high protein. He seems to think it is a low pressure headache. This is all new to us. We have never heard of such a thing. Apparently there are more of you out there who suffer from this. We would love to hear from anyone experiencing the same thing. He did have a blood patch today. Waiting to see if it helps. Thanks for that great article. Very good and informitive ... Lisa, 15 August 2006
REGARDING SPONTANEOUS INTRACRANIAL HYPOTENSION I am a 36yo female I have had this condition also on july 19 2006 I went to bed with a bad headache and woke up the next morning with sore shoulders and neck when I tried to get up I suffered the most excruciating pain in my neck and head it was so bad I wanted to vomit . When I visited the local hospital the doctor gave me panadol and sent me home without doing any tests. After 3 days of getting worse I went back to my doctor by this time I could barely walk because the pain was so severe the doctor sent me over for a cat scan which they picked up immediatley as some kind of fluid on my brain . After that I was flown by Royal Flying Doctor to Perth . While there I had 2 MRI one on my brain and the other on my spine after the spinal one they picked up that I had a leak in my spine. I just want to tell any one out there who has had or does have this condition that I really feel for you because it's such a traumatic illness and no one has any idea how painful it is also anyone who is suffering pain in the head so bad please demand you have a cat scan ... Deanne, 26 September 2006
I am just three weeks out of having a disctectomy done. The week prior to that I received an epideral to try amd fix the blown disc that I had. Is there anyway to minimize the pan of the headaches? I am being admitted into the hospital again on Monday to now correct the spinal fluid leakage problem. Does anyone have any suggestios concerning this matter or that can supply me with any kind of information? ... Heather, 22 November 2006
I would like to talk to others who are suffering from spinal fluid leaks. Can you help put me in touch? Or, can I talk to you? ... Brad Hennenfent, 22 January 2007
I read the article on Spontaneous Intracranial Hypotension and felt compelled to share my experience with this condition, which is still unresolved but hopefully soon to be treated. I should preface this by saying that I have never had injury or trauma to the head or spine. I developed a headache a little over two weeks ago that was very migraine-like except that none of the pain relievers I tried got rid of it entirely, it originates at the base of the skull and spreads forward, and it's relieved within five minutes of lying down. Also, after five days of the headache, I began to have a feeling of congestion in my ears accompanied by a soft rushing sound, followed by mild hearing loss. The first doctor I saw in Urgent Care gave me some migraine medicine; the second ordered a CT scan; the third ordered a brain MRI and had me see a neurologist; the neurologist saw a report of the MRI that indicated enlarged ventricles, thought I might have hydrocephalus and referred me to a neurosurgeon for another opinion (the neurologist also prescribed Diamox, a diuretic - yikes!); the neurosurgeon looked at my MRI and thought I had a Chiari malformation, but wanted a second opinion so he had me see another neurosurgeon; the second neurosurgeon made the diagnosis of intracranial hypotension and ordered a lumbar MRI to see if they could detect a CSF leak. My dilated ventricles caused a lot of confusion because that's not usually consistent with SIH, but it was eventually concluded that I've probably had hydrocephalus all my life but have never had symptoms, and that the hydrocephalus is not what's causing my current problems. The next step was supposed to be a tracer study to try to identify a leak and its location. Well, my concerned husband got tired of all the shuffling and waiting around among our local doctors, so he took me up to Stanford (about an hour's drive) and checked me in to the ER; as you can imagine, we got much farther much faster by doing that. Stanford neurologists agreed with the diagnosis and have arranged for a blood patch next week -- no messing around with a tracer study. The blood patch will be injected and then my head will be lowered so that the blood coats the entire inside of the dura along the spine, with the assumption that if there's a leak somewhere along there, it will be plugged up. Let's hope it works!!! ... Larisa, 25 March 2007
I AM 45 YEARS OLD AND I TO WIND UP WITH MIGRANES I REMEEMBER JUST THIS MONTH OF THIS YR. MY HEADACHES WERE SO BAD THAT I LAYED IN A DARK COOL ROOM AND JUST SLEPT I WAS FEELING NAUSEATED EVERTIME I HAD TO USE THE RESTROOM THE SMELL OF FOOD EVEN MADE ME SICK. RECENTLY I HAD A MRI AND THE DOCTOR TOLD ME THAT THE FLUIDS IN MY BRAIN WERE LOW. BUT I ALSO WENT THROUGH 3 BLOWS TO THE HEAD FROM MY EX-HUSBAND NOW I HAVE A NEW LIFE A WONDERFULL HUSBAND AND I ALSO TO WENT TO THE COMPUTER TO FIND NUMEROUS ANSWERS BUT NOTHING SEEM COMPLETED I WILL BE SEEING A NEUROLOGIST HERE THIS AUGUST BUT TILL THAN OUR HOUSE IS DARK AND COOL AND TAKE MEDICATION FOR HEADACHES HOW SEVERE CAN THIS BE AND WHAT HAVE THEY FOUND IN TODAY TECHNOLOGY? I HOPE SOMEONE OUT THERE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM GOING THROUGH AND WHAT RELIEVED DID THEY RECIEVE DURING ALL THIS PLEASE IF ANY ONE KNOWS PLEASE SEND WHAT INFORMATION YOU MAY HAVE CAUSE I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE MY LIFE BACK TO NORMAL ... Susie, 26 June 2007
One morning in Oct. 06 I woke up with severe headaches and after 6 weeks of working up the ladder at my HMO, a neurologist finally diagnosed me with CSF leak (SIH). Not content to being mollified by being put on Prozac, I did some cursory research on the net and found out that others had what I had and found that some had been referred to Dr. Schievink at Cedars Sinai in Los Angeles for treatment. These can include blood patches, glue patches and surgery. His staff is very familiar with the disease and he is "the" expert.
My HMO refused to send me to him (right down the street in my case) the cost you know, until I developed large subdural hematomas. At that point they had no choice but to refer me because it was totally out of their realm to effectively treat the underlying cause, the CSF leak, or the subdurals.
A long story short--after 2 blood patches, 1 glue patch and 2 spinal surgeries(laminectomies)at T9-11 to remove benign Tarlov cysts, to repair 2 leaks, I can now function quite nicely. I have a 20 lb. lifting limit, can't hike up steep hills, and can't push or pull on heavy objects. These modified "val salva" maneuvers, I have learned, will cause undectable (on a CT myleogram) leaks. They come and go because I will still get positional headaches at times. At my last reading my CSF pressure is ZERO.(0) cm.
I'm very fortunate at 60 years old to be retired and thank God every day for the wonderful treatment I have recieved. I think mine was a severe case, I use to do a lot of physical work and ran for 25 yrs and maybe those were contributing factors ... Harvey Geiss, 16 July 2007
I had a spontaneous CSF leak in Nov 2004. After weeks of being told I had migrains, I was sent to a neurologist. He immediatly knew it was a CSF leak and put me on bedrest. After 6 weeks on bed rest, I still had bad headaches everytime I stood up. I then had a test to show where the hole was and they could not find it. I went to a different hospital and asked if we could do the test standing up because that was when I had my pain, and they said their machines can't go up that far. So I asked if they could do it with me on my knees, and they said yes. With in minutes they saw a large tear at C7. After two blood patches my major headaches are gone. From day one, to the last blood patch it was 4 months of bed rest! Yuck! Now I am living my life wondering if this will happen again, and taking Neurontin for these annoying daily headaches. Scary stuff! ... Elizabeth Kilik, 11 October 2007
Reading article and reader comments on intracranial hypotension. I've suffered over past 15 years from initially intracranial hypotension and flipped at some point to intracranial hypertension (or pseudotumor cerebri)! Living in Cleveland, OH diagnosis ranged from CSF leak to Chiari Malformation to POTS to migraine headaches. I ended up at Mayo Clinic where intracranial hypertension was diagnosed JUly 2007. Mayo has some of the leading experts on this area of neurology in the country. Medication was tried for a short while and in August 2007 a VP Shunt was placed to releive the hypertension. Almost 9 weeks after surgery some headache symptoms arise mid-day when I'm upright- started irregularly a few weeks ago now more of a daily occurance, including one episode of nausea and vomiting. I'm following up back at Mayo Clinic in 1 week. Looking for anyone with similar experiences, resolution of symptoms, and return to normal family and work life ... Robert Schneider, 22 October 2007
Comments
benign intercranial hypotension fluid going down throat
I am also going through the same symptoms The dizziness and nausea has been constant along with the intense headaches and earaches I had fallen in october and I have been having these symptoms. The Mri show chiari typ 1 malformation
The drip down the throat is constant
Bubbling sounds at base of skull
Has anyone else had strange bubbling or wooshing sounds at the base of your skull when laying down and it seems like it is loud enough to be audible to others around you? Mine feels like it's going up into my skull. Do you get headaches shortly after the fizzing? Anyone?
My surgeon told me that
My surgeon told me that whooshing sound I hear at the base of the skull is caused by my herniated brain.
Hi wdiz, I know this post is
Hi wdiz,
I know this post is old, but when I read it, I felt compelled to reply. Wow...I thought I was the only one feeling and hearing this weird, bubbly noise at the base of my skull! Fizzing is a good way to describe it too. I have been experiencing this for over twenty years. I always feel a little wierd and somewhat out of sync for a few seconds after it happens. I have lots of headaches; I have had them most of my life. Just wondering if you ever got the bottom of this...what was causing this for you?
Mary M
yes, I do have some sound
yes, I do have some sound and I actually feel the sensation in the base of my skull, it is like toc toc toc,I compare it to a hammer.
Soory for my english i am from Canada and I speak french.g
Yes, I have had the bubbling
Yes, I have had the bubbling sounds at the base of my skull. I always feel a little weird after it happens, and sometimes I feel headachy. I have been having this since childhood and always wondered what it was. Most recently, I have been having lots of neurological symptoms...severe headaches, vision problmes, balance issues, and neck and shoulder pain. I recently had a visit with a neurologist(one of many) who suspected I have cranial settling; possilby due to a connective tissue disorder. I am going for an upright FONAR MRI next week. I highly suggest this to anyone and everyone who is having neurological symptoms, especially when they are in an upright position.
Support Forum, Research, Knowledge, Information
If you have a leak or suspect a leak and want to learn more about them, talk with other leakers, get good research, find out others experiences, etc. This board is a great tool and full of people who are sympathetic as most of them are leakers themselves!
Brain Talk Communities - Cerebrospinal Fluid (CSF) Leak
http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=126
If you can't link directly or cut and paste addy to get there; do a Google search for:
Brain Talk Communities - Cerebrospinal Fluid (CSF) Leak
Spontaneous Leak
I am just recovering from a spontaneous CSF leak. I, too, had all the symptoms described above - nausea and vomiting, dizziness, severe pain in my neck and the back of my head, achy shoulders and upper back, loss of hearing, and a soft flushing sound. At times it sounded as if I were inside a conch shell. The headache was postural: fine when I would lie down, but crushingly painful when I would sit or stand. I couldn't work; I had to lie flat for 3 weeks. Two days ago, thanks to an MRI, the leak was found. Just yesterday, I received the blood patch and am on the road to recovery. At this point, I am most interested in finding out why this happened, so that I can try to prevent it from ever happening again. One doctor told me it can happen just by lifting 30 pounds. Another doctor said that there is a 30% chance that it will happen again. I would like to know how to strengthen the membrane and whether I can take any other actions to help prevent a return of this condition.
csf leak
My sister has been bed ridden for the last month and I have been looking after her 2 children because she has suffered similar symptoms to the ones mentioned above.
Almost 4 weeks ago she woke up with a sore neck and pressure in her head that only reduced when she lay down.
By the next day she was in incredible pain and I rang an ambulance fearing she had a brain tumor or an burst blood vessel?? the only relive she got was from laying flat, any sitting or standing caused vomiting deafness pressure behind her eyes and severe pain in her neck,shoulders and head.
she spent 2 days in emergency then was admitted for tests including 2 lumber punctures that produced no fluid (failed) mri and cat scan.
Eventually after many doctors she was told that she had a spontaneous spinal leak and was given a blood patch. This gave some relief but 2 weeks down the track she is still bed ridden and her job is in jeopardy as well as her children being in my care.
Doctors are now saying she has tension headaches and these can last up to 2 years...They have prescribed Valium to reduce the head pain as well as panadol forte and endone.
I hope someone can help out there as she is only 32 and there is so much more life to live/
I had a spontaneous csf leak
I had a spontaneous csf leak and was mostly bedridden. I have 6 kids, the youngest was 14 months at the time. I had a brain MRI which showed that that there was fluid on the brain, then a spinal MRI which showed fluid. I had 2 blood patches which didn't work. Then they did a myelogram to find the exact location of the leak. They found it, and after 2 high volume blood patches aimed at the exact location of the leak, the leak was repaired and no more headaches. Don't give up. Persist until it's fixed. I had all the same symptoms. She needs to see a neurologist. Regular doctors don't know the specifics and may give up after regular blood patches.
Way to go sister!
I'm 33 years old and had a Spontaneous CSF Leak 3 years ago. I began feeling really horrible in the afternoons for a few days. Dizzy, nauseated, lots of head pain. One night after I put the kids to bed I passed out on the kitchen floor and woke up hours later, disoriented and unable to call for assistance. I KNEW something was wrong then!
I went to my HMO and got "put off" for weeks. They did scans but couldn't see anything. I was sure I had a tumor or something. My sister, bless her, took my two children and kept them busy. I've always been active and well, and these leaks make you feel SICK. I began losing neuro functions when upright (hearing, cognitive, speech, etc) and decided to check myself into ER. Got tossed from hospital to hospital until I ended up at a teaching hospital in Portland, OR. They did fancy, expensive scans, did another (my 4th) blood patch. Nothing worked. So I went home, had my bed put on blocks into a make-shift Trendelenburg position, and there I stayed for another two months. I finally realized that I was going to have to get more proactive, even in my debilitating pain, and at that point, weakness (I had lost 25 pounds lying there wasting away). So I got the name of a great naturopath in Portland and went to him. He prescribed some things he thought would help mend the dura. I'm not a vitamin-popper, but this did seem to make sense! After all, it's broken, and it just might need some assistance in mending. The other thing I did was to think back to how I might have done this in the first place. I kept thinking about my yoga class, and that damned backward roll you do over your neck. I'm a tall girl, 6 ft, and that position never felt right, in fact it hurt. SO, I concluded that I must have torn my dura somewhere up in the cervical spine area, not lower where they had been doing the blood patches. I had my mom go buy a $5 neck cuff at the pharmacy. You know, the kind you wear after a car wreck? I began drinking tons of water, taking my vitamins, forcing healthy foods down (you have no appetite when you've been in bed for 12 weeks,) and I wore that foam neck cuff.
Well, within 3 weeks, one morning, I woke up feeling fine. I could actually tell upon waking that something had happened. It felt like someone had lifted me from the bottom of the deep end of a pool, back up to the surface. That pressure and pain in the head was gone. I literally couldn't believe it. First was a wave of relief. I cried and cried. Then a flood of fear! What if it comes back tomorrow. It was almost a PTSD thing. I STILL have great fear, three years later, that this could happen again. I don't toss my head around, I don't do anything jarring, I DON'T do yoga rolls!
But it's scary, and I feel for each one of you who is going through this, or is supporting someone through this. Keep your hopes up. Believe you can get well. Try new things. Think in basic terms..... how did I do this? I really think that stabilizing my neck is what allowed the tear in the dura to heal. NOBODY with a medical degree had suggested this, but they sure did $50K work of other things trying to "fix" it. Don't rely on doctors to fix it, they really don't know much about these. Stay calm, nourish your body as best you can, consult with a really good Naturopathic Doctor (ND). You will get through this!
I wish I could support others through this, but it's so rare. I remember being so desperate for information, hope...... anything to guide me. Thank you to all of you who share your stories. Don't forget to post your story AFTER you get well. Those mean a lot to people who are suffering.
CSF leak update
Wow. Years have passed since I wrote this comment, and I just got an email in my inbox saying that someone had commented on my posting. From the looks of it, several have over the past couple of years. I apologize for not responding! This is the first email notice I've ever received pertaining to this forum.
So quickly, my doctor who helped me on my road to recovery was Dr. Chris Meletis here in Portland, OR. In my opinion, he's a pretty smart guy! I appreciated that he took the time to listen to my story and think critically about what he could do to help. He gave me a list of what to try and how much, and I really do believe that the supplementations helped allow my dura to heal. He gave his reasons for each recommendation and they made sense. And then there was...... the neck cuff!
Anyway, I don't recall exactly what he prescribed back then. I know there were maybe 6 or 8 things he had me take, some were as simple as fish oil and vitamin C. Others were more specific and targeted the actual dura itself. Things that would help that type of tissue repair itself.
I think the most frustrating part of my journey was not ever having a concrete diagnosis to fall back on. Because they could never clearly SEE the leak, I got a good number of doctors who gave me that "this girl is crazy" look. It's terrifying, humiliating, and traumatizing. I still feel afraid to go to the doctor, and I've been well for five years. There's still this puzzling period of illness on my medical record, and I can tell that it has affected the way they view me as a patient, even though I never bring it up. THAT was the worst to come from it all. That was the lasting scar for me. I was even denied health insurance because of those three months. Too bad.
But I'm still well, and for that I'm thankful each day. If anyone has questions or needs encouragement, you can email me. It's hard to find positive things about these leaks online.
Keep in mind that the reality is that only the people who are still unwell are on the net searching for information and posting stuff. Once people get well, they all to frequently don't look back and don't post the success stories. There are lots of us who have survived this. You will too. And for me, just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, it got better.... all in one day. Maybe that day is right around the corner for you. Keep trying new things. Think in simple terms. Become a sleuth. BE your dura! Help it heal. It can.
Go. Go. Go.
Elissa
CSF Leak
What kind of vitamins did you take? Do you account these for your sudden recovery?
CSF
What was the name of the medicine the Dr. gave you to help repair your dura?
Wanting to contact Elissa
Hello Elissa,
I'm really interested in knowing what your Naturopathic Doctor prescribed that thought would help mend the dura. I have been suffering from a spinal leak from a spinal anesthesia for childbirth. I really need to get better to take care of my 10 month baby. And like you already experienced doctors are not always that helpful especially in situations like ours.
Thanks in advance
Mary
CSF leak
Hi there!
It's been quite a while since you posted this, so I don't know if you'll get this response, but I would love to ask you some questions.
I have had a post lumbar puncture headache resulting from a myleogram for 8 weeks now. I had a blood patch on day 3 which took the headache away immediately but only lasted one day, and a second blood patch at week 6 which didn’t work, and actually immediately exasperated my symptoms.
I've seen two neurologists about this. We've ruled out a secondary headache, spending four days in the hospital receiving doses of DHE (a massive migraine medication). I had also spent another three days in the hospital the weekend before receiving fluid IVs. None of these treatments helped my symptoms at all, and they are still very positional.
I had an MRI of the brain with and without contrast which ruled out any major complications (i.e. subdural hematoma) and did not show menigeal enhancement. Based on my MRI, one neurologist I saw recommended a conservative approach of waiting this out, in the expectation that my dura will eventually heal. He did say if it got worse to go in and try a 3rd blood patch (perhaps flouroscopy-guided) before I did anything more invasive.
However, another neurologist I spoke to wants to do a myelogram to test the pressure of CSF and attempt to locate the leak. I am extremely leary of doing yet another lumbar puncture right into the dura, which could result in yet another leak.
I have done a lot of research online regarding all of this, and my personal thoughts are in alignment with the more conservative treatment. It seems as though sometimes more lumbar punctures can result in more leaks, and blood patches (and even surgery) don’t always heal it. I really want to wait and see if this thing will heal on it's own.
Reading your story gave me so much hope! It is one I am holding on to with dear life and keep coming back to read every few days for inspiration.
Like you did, I am lying FLAT (only up to use the restroom), drinking tons of water (and gatorade), popping vitamins (amino acids, vitamin B complex, vitamin C, MSM), eating a lot of protein and healthy foods (even though I don't have an appetite), keeping up on my caffeine, and have an abdominal binder on. I have been doing this for 2 months now... (I also just started on a steroid pack this week.) I keep hoping all of this is going to help heal my dura soon!
I have noticed an improvement of my symptoms over the past few days, which I'm hoping means this thing is healing up. However, over the course of this I've had two different peroids of improvement which resulted in two set-backs because I think I tried to push it too fast. (I went for a ride in the car, which made me much worse both times and took a week or so to recover from.)
SO this time my plan is to STAY FLAT until it's gone. (I guess unless it just doesn't heal and I have to take more aggressive measures...?)
I guess my question is this:
Did you ever have peroids of improvement where you thought you were getting better only to result in set-backs? Were your symptoms fairly constant or did you feel an incremental improvement over those months? What did those last 3 weeks feel like? Were you a little better each day? Or was it more like each week you noticed you were a little better? You mentioned that one morning you woke up feeling fine - you knew something had happened. Was it a severe contrast from the day before? Or did you have a feeling you were gradually improving up until that morning? What were your symptoms like during those last 3 weeks? (when you did get up)
If you wouldn't mind responding, it would be SO INCREDIBLY helpful! As you know, this is a very difficult thing to go through...
THANK YOU for your time and encouragement!
Mindi
re: way to go sister
Hello Elissa,
I read your comments and am interested in what your ND doctor advised you to take as far as supplements.
I am 36 years old and was diagnosed a few weeks ago with a spontaneous CSF leak and have had 2 blood patches (one was to fix the lumbar puncture done to check for meningitis).
I still have a constant headache but it is less severe.
I want to be 100% and also start driving again.
My neurologist is suggesting a third but with a marginal improvement from the second I am scepticle am want to look into anything that will help.
Your feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks,
RE: way to go sister
Hello Philip,
just wondering if you have been able to contact Elissa and the remedies her homeopath adviced her to take.
I don't know if its a coincidence but I'm currently seeing a hemeopath and he gave me something called Ledum Palustre. He says its used to help seal wounds like gun shot wounds and that kind of stuff.
I don't know if its a coincidence but I have felt some kind of improvement in my symptoms. I am really praying this will do the trick and finally heal this darn spinal leak.
Mary
RE: way to go sister
I'm 65 and in early October, while lifting heavy boxes, I suffered a blow to the top of my head from the roof of a small mini van - ouch! It was about two months after an epidural in my lower spine for constant numbness in my legs since I have lower back scoliosis and a slight curvature in the middle back. Three days later the weather turned quite cold and since I have sleep apnea, I began to use humidity from my CPAP and I woke up after 3 hours with a loud roaring noise in my ears - likened to a jet engine under water. A hearing test determined that I had a tiny loss of hearing so I was sent to a neurologist for an MRI and MRA and an ECOG test. A CSF leakage appeared without a visible leakage site. Luckily I have no headaches, except a slight headache just before it snows, as I always have. I also have no leakage from the nose and ears. Could I have a defective eustachian tube? Doctors were puzzeled.
2 months later I was given a blood patch and the noise worsened that same day. After another month, they refused to give me another blood patch since it worsened my symptoms. I still notice the roar, however, it subsides by using a TMJ mouth guard at night, yet if I fall asleep without it, the roar returns for two or three days and I hear a slight hum in the back of my head.
I also need to sleep with my bed elevated at the head and I keep myself propped up with pillows. I also experience crackling in my neck if I should curl my head down when sleeping and when that happens, I get the roar back. I wondered if it would be better to hold my neck stiff, but I was told I would then have problems with a stiff neck and that did happen. However, I was in bed constantly at the time so I think it might help to get a neck brace now since I am sitting up and moving around slightly during the day and I won't get as stiff. I do stretch my neck a bit while using the computer.
I am not scheduled to see the neurologist for another month. Should I be given an upright FONAR MRI as someone suggested earlier? I wonder if it would be safe to use an endoscopic procedure to find out where the leakage is occuring? Could the leak be in the neck or at the top of the head at the trauma site or in the lower spine at the site of the epidural?
Were these other suggestions given in a previous comment used and successful and would they be of help to me?
1.Connective tissue disorders (if positive avoid LP's)
2.Tethered spinal Cord (low lying conus, Lumbar)
3.Cervical Instability
I am very curious about the homeopathic medicine called Ledum Palustre which was prescribed in your previous comment. Please tell me if it worked.
Roaring in Ears
Marie,
I had noise in my ears as well as not being able to lay flat. It turned out to be a blockage in my brain. While I have had the spinal fluid leak, it goes without saying, you get the horrific headache and that wasn't related to the ear noise.
Since you don't have the horrific 'spinal' headaches, I wonder if you might consider reading or contacting the many wonderful resources in the American Tinnitus Association journal. I'm sure they have a website.
It is just a thought for you. Even though my blockage was cured (spiritual healing in front of 24 neurologists while many prayed for me in the waiting room) wihtout surgery, I still had the problems with ear ringing and eustacian tube issues. I had lost a great deal of weight during the brain blockage illness. An ENT at the Cleveland Clinic told me to gain weight and that did the trick. Ear sounds as you describe may very well be unrelated to the spinal leak. I am not a doctor. Do get on line and check out the American Tinnitus Association website and order their journal.
Also, I use a Sleep Number bed that raises the top and the bottom. Now I don't have the ear issues as in the past - or back issues.
I will pray for you too.
Maureen
Re: way to go sister
I am too trying to get the same information from Elissa on the naturopath or remedies he prescribed. Any word yet?
I would greatly appreciate any info.
Mary
possible csf leak
I am a 28 year old woman who has been suffering from lethargy, dizziness, ringing in the ears ect. after a spinal anesthesia. I feel dizzy 24/7 I'm unable to take care of myself or my nine month old son. What I'm living is a nightmare.
No doctor has been able to help me. I read Elissa's story. It gives me hope that one day I will also wake up one morning feeling normal again. I would love to contact Elissa. If by any chance Elissa you can contact me I would for ever be great full.
I to suffer from proessure headaches...
How is your sister? I to suffer from pressure headaches and also have a lot more of life I'd like to live with my husband and children. Is she doing better?
cfs leak
I HAD MICRO SURGERY ON LOWER BACK 2 WEEKSAFTER HAD VERY BAD HEADACHES BACK SWELLED CALLED DOCTOR TOLD ME IT WAS OKAY THEY CUT MY DURA I HAVE HAD 4 SURGERYS FROM MAY 07 TO OCTOBER 07 3 TO FIX LEAK HEADACHES NECK PAIN HAVE NOT WENT AWAY I AM 39 HAVE HAD BLOOD PATCH I AM ON MY 3RD MED 4 HEADACHE I FEEL HELPLESS TO GOING 2 THERAPY 4 BACK LEG PAIN BECAUSE SPINAL FLUID WAS PUSHING ON MY NERVE 4 SO LONG DOCTORS SOMETIMES WONT ADMIT TO MAKING A MISTAKE I AM LOOKING FOR HELP I AM UNDER CARE FROM LOYOLA IL DOCTORS NOW THEY SAVED MY LIFE IF A DOCTOR IS READING THIS PLEASE EMAIL ME THE HEADACHES ARE NOT MIGRAINS OR STRESS THEY ARE THE WORSE FEELING IN THE WORLD FEEL SICK ALL THE TIME I CAN LAY DOWN OR STAND UP DOESNT MATTER LOYOLA DOCTOR WANTED TO DO CASE STUDY ON MY TEAR NEVER SEEN 1 THAT BIG I HOPE YOUR SISTER FEELS BETTER HANG IN THERE I HAVE BEEN OFF WORK 4 16 MONTHS NO HOPE IN SITE THANK YOU
spontaneous intercranial hypotension
I am a 46 yr old woman and i started having reacuring headaches in feb,2007,i went to the optitions and was given clean bill of health for my eyes,my headaches came and went,then in may 2007 i had severe migraine headache i spent 3 days in dark room, i went back to work and within a hour of working the migraine headache was so intent and severe that i collapsed at work, i went to the emergency Dr's he diagnosed an inner ear infection,the next day i visited my own GP and he put me in touch with a nurologist,i had an MRI scan and he diagnosed SIH as i have never suffered with migraine before, since then i have had two lumber punctures, MRI's with contrast dye,caffine infusion, blood patch,isatope cisternogram, with no outcome i have just had a ct mylogram with MRI scan and am awaiting the results of this test.I still have migraine like headaces on a daily basis when i am standing or moving around i have ringing in left ear, feeling of nausea, and constantly feel the room is swaying and spinning when eyes closed, and need to wear sunglasses in daylight, when headache at worst it feels like my brain is being pushed down into my neck which then makes neck feel stiff. Hopefully the tear will be found soon and i can get back to normal in the last 10 months i have lost my job and am now on benefits as i can not work i feel phisically dissabled by this illness
you could have meneriers
you could have meneriers dieseae as i have the same thing you have to got to ears throat and nose doc its a long road and i have had neck injuries and they try to say everything else but the right diognose
CSF leak
Just cruising through these pages and came across your entry. I wondered if you had made any progress yet and thought you might like to hear a more positive story.
In 2004/05 I developed excrutiating head pain. I couldn't travel in the car at all - I would vomit with the pain. When I went to the Doctors surgery, I would have to lay on the floor because I couldn't bear to be upright for any length of time. I developed tinitus. I couldn't move my eyes from left to right. I was constantly checked for tumours and all other more normal problems, sinusitis etc. I became almost completely bedbound.
After six months with no life at all I got so desparate I paid to see a neurologist. He recommended I have an MRI scan and it was only then that I was diagnosed with spontaneous intracranial hypotension. They think I ripped the dura during a heavy bout of coughing.
Anyway, they tried a blood patch, but it didn't work and I felt really worried that they were messing with my spinal cord. My consultant told me that rest used to be the answer for this condition (I was very fortunate that my consultant had seen two patients during his working life with this condition). I decided to follow this course of action - I'd read too many horror stories on line to want to have too many procedures.
I drank lots of coffee - couldn't even go to the toilet with a fix of caffeine; tried amytryptiline (hated that); took diclofenic (think it helped a bit) ; ate loads of avocados (my body just seemed to want them, so I listened) and I stayed as flat as I could.
Since 2006 I have been able to resume a relatively normal life. My nerves at the base of my skull/brain were very bruised by the 'brain sag' that I had and I have been very careful not to over- exert myself - no heavy lifting - no running - no dancing. For perhaps a year afterwards I had dragging sensations in the back of my neck when I stood up and visual disturbances - I wondered if I would ever feel normal again.
Well, I do now.
When I was ill I could never find any positive stories which told of people getting better - I suspected that this was because once they were better they didn't think about putting positive stories out there for people to read. That is why I thought I would log my return to relative normality.
I so hope that you have made some progress. It is a horrid condition and difficult to get any decent information on it - only sad stories. For all you sufferers out there, my thoughts are with you and GOOD LUCK in your recovery.
Can you explain what you mean
Can you explain what you mean by the "dragging sensation" in the back of your head and neck? I suffered with a leak for about six months and have been recovering slowly after having had several blood patches, but I still sometimes feel like it will come back to haunt me. I get a similar sensation and its just so helpful to compare symptoms with other sufferers because anyone else would just not understand. I still get a tightness in the base of my skull and a burning sensation between my shoulder blades. Is this similar to what you feel. Any input is greatly appreciated.
your message
Hello. Thank you for writing this. After going through this horrible ordeal myself, it is very satisfying reading something so positive. As you and everyone else who has experienced this, I did not see anything positive anywhere on the web and that is something you need to hear the most. Thank you again for posting such a positive message!
Take Care.
Spinal Fluid Leak
Hi, my husband came down with mengentis in 1995 and again 6 months later. The doctors determined he had a spinal fluid leak when he began leaking fluid out of his nose. The test they did to find it was they injected dye into his head and then put him on a tilt table upside down and the dye went straight to the leak. He then had brain surgery to fix his skull which caused the tear in his dura. He suffered from headaches for a year after but that was due to the meningitis. I'm not sure what the name of the test is but you might mention this procedure to your doctor. I hope the leak is found soon and you get some relief. I know how terrible it is. Take care. Yvonne
CSF leak
I had a CSF leak when my son was born, 9 years ago. It was due to an epidural and my vertebrae was shorter than average, so they punctured too far. I was in pain for about a week--headaches, stiffness, sensitive ears. I got a blood patch done about a week after he was born and I thought all was fine. The headaches immediately went away and never returned. But my hearing loss has never returned to nornal...is there anyone out there that has experienced this? I didn't notice the hearing loss because it was gradual. Also, the ringing has never left either. I now wear hearing aids, I'm only 36 yrs. old. My right ear is sever loss and my left is moderate. If there is anyone out there that has any ideas on if my hearing loss is treatable, I'd appreciate a reply or response. I didn't realize till now, explaining my hearing loss to my chiropractor that it could be connected. I've not asked my doctor as of yet, since I just thought of it today. (I will be giving them a call soon). I'd appreciate any positive comments. thanks....rustiemom@gmail.com
Several years ago, I was
Several years ago, I was shopping when I felt a 'burst' in the back of my head...lower left skull. I assumed that I had had an aneurism and that the burst, or gush of liquid inside my head was blood. I had several tests, and no diagnoses was given at the time because tests came back negative. For the following 8-10 days, I was unable to get up out of bed because standing up was excrutiatingly painful. I got up twice per day...both times to use the bathroom. I would run to the bathroom, lie on the floor for a few minutes, get up to use the toilet, lie on the floor...then make it back to my bed. In a reclined position, my severe headache mostly subsided.
After much research and news of a relative with a severe positional headache following a spinal tap, I came to realize that what I had was a case of spontaneous spinal leak.
Have your doctors
Have your doctors consider/rule out a few other things:
1.Connective tissue disorders (if positive avoid LP's)
2.Tethered spinal Cord (low lying conus, Lumbar)
3.Cervical Instability
DO YOUR HOMEWORK research the above and ACM
Any of these (plus hypo and hypertension) can cause a chiari malformation, ask radiologist to look specifically for herniation many ACM's are missed first reading. If positive you still have to find the cause. Many chiari's do not require surgery. Check the above and consult a Chiari expert before any surgery. Don't mess around, the longer you wait the worse it gets.
(2 posters above have a bad Chiari)
CFS leak
I had suregery for a discectomy in nov 2004. I have had a CFS leak 2 days after my surgery. I was sent home the same day as my surgery as they had no hospital beds. Two days latter I was sent back to emergency room, tested positive for CSF leak. I layed in emergency room 2 days with no meals, had to hobble to the rest room. It is now 2008. I think the leak was never "fixed" and I can't get Kaiser HMO to take me seriously. I wake up with migrains, feel nausea, lower back feels like it is on fire at times. I now suffer from dizziness, sinus trouble, sleep apnea, my head and neck make "crakling" noises when I move, had 2 sezures at home alone. Also numerous episodes of the room spinning when I open my eyes. I need help and can't get taken seriously. I am now on disability.
CSF Leaks !!!!
I had spinal surgery last July for release of siatica nerve on Wednesday, after the surgery I was allowed home on Friday. I took things easy for the next few days, and on the following Monday, I had the most horrendous headache, and I felt unwell. I went to bed,started to vomit and had a temperature. I tried to take some pain-killers, but vomited them. My partner called the GP and was told to 'monitor the situation'. Things didn't improve over the following hours, and after several calls to the GP, she finally came out after 27 hours of the original phone call!!! She gave me some anti-vomiting tablets and told me to wait for a few hours before I take pain-killers and if things didn't improve, my partner was to call the surgery. We waited for 4 hours and things didn't improve, we called the surgery and told the GP and she said she was going to admit me, and she was sending an ambulance for me. I was admitte dto my local hospital after waiting 3 hours for the ambulance, put into a side room and waited for 2 hours to see a doctor, I was in excurciating pain and still vomiting. Told the medics what was wrong and asked if I could have something for the pain, and got told 'don't know what is wrong with you, so you will have to wait'!!! I was sent for a MRI, and several hours later, a Doctor came around and told me 'this is way out of our league, we are transfering you back to where you had your operation'. When I arrived, I got told I had 4 CSF leaks and I was going straight the theatre!!! I had to go back to theatre for 2 other repairs. It's now 6 months on, and I'M still not right, I have just found out that I am STILL leaking spinal fluid, and there is an imbalance in my brain!!!! I wish I never had the operation in the first place!!!!!
spinal leak
Hello, I have just read your story on the internet and must say how similar your symptoms are to mine. I had a nerve block on the C2 nerve in 2001 and since then have had various problems but in August last year I had a headache like never before with vomitting and just felt so poorly, went to the emergency room and they scanned the brain but didnot look at the neck area and said nothing was wrong and sent me home. Since then the headaches have increased and I also have dizziness, sinus trouble, snore and when I turn my head and neck it crackles and I can feel fluid there, also suffer from tinnitus. I have been begging my local hospital and doctor to help me but they do blood tests and then say everything is fine when I know it isnot. Today I have eventually seen a neurologist and he doesnot think I am imagining these things which is what my doctor told me and he is arranging for me to have a special scan with contrast because he thinks there may be a csf leak. My family have believed my doctor that all this is in my mind and I have told them how poorly I feel. My husband now believes me but I am very frightened because each day the fluid is increasing in my neck and sinuses. I donot know where you live but I live in the UK and I feel like I have been fighting a one person battle to get believed. Please do not give up, I know how frustrating it is when no one seems to be listening, I have begged doctors to help me but they look at me as though I am mad. Try and see another doctor and keep on at them until they listen. My doctor told me that when I am really ill no one will believe me but I know I am ill now and he is wrong and when I am eventually sorted I will take things further and look into clinical negligence but for now i just want them to make me better. I know you posted your message in February and now it is October so hopefully they have made you well. Please take care, best wishes Jane
similar thing
I had an epidural that lead to a CSF leak. I had one patch that didn't work. I have everything from double vision to hearing loss. It even caused one little parking lot accident. Every doctor I've seen except one litterally won't treat me. (The CSF leak was caused by a seriously botched epidural that caused an anesthetic toxicity that almost killed me). No one will run a test, because it will emplicate the guy who did it. (Although - I'm not even suing!!!) If your CSF leak was caused by someone you won't get help in state, you'll have to go out of state. I did see one honest neurologist that told me to go to the Mayo clinic. You may want to look at that. Good Luck!
OMG!! Same thing happened to me!!
I had the EXACT same thing happen to me! I had three different epidurals placed for the delivery of my 3rd child and since then (last April 2007) I have been suffering from this "spontaneous intracranial hypotension". Nobody wanted to treat me at first because I made it very clear that my life changed after I had the epidural. I finally found a neurologist that helped. After 3 MRI/CT myelograms, about 20 different brain and spine MRI's, and 3 failed blood patches (one being a "fancy" high volume blood patch where they hang you upside down after injecting the blood), I finally went to see Dr. Schevink at Cedars/Sinia- I'm not sure how to spell either. Dr. Schevink ordered a fibrin gluing of three different dilated nerve roots in my thoracic area. All neurosurgeons and neurologists argue that since my leaks were detected in the thoracic area, it couldn't have been caused by an epidural. The fact of the matter still stands that these excruciating headaches all began after I recieved an epidural. I also had an immediate "mother of all headaches" headache as they were placing the 3rd and last epidural where I temporarily lost conciousness. Subsequently I developed an acquired Chairi malformation and I'm suspicious that happened while the epidural was placed. I feel positive these headaches and all associated symptoms stem from the epidural. Anyway, I just wanted you and everyone else that has posted know that you are not alone.
My husband is in the hospital after having surgery for CSF...
I wanted to find out if the surgery went well after Dr. Schevink operated on you as my husband had the exact same surgery yesterday and I am praying this will help him. Can you please let me know how you were and do today!! Thank you so much for responding.
spontaneous CSF
Hi! I suffered with "migraine"headaches and "depression"for 3 years. The only relief from the headaches was to lay down. Just as soon as I stepped out of bed in the morning the debilitating headache began. My treatments consisted of 9 blood patches, chiropractic care, fibrin glue patches, migraine and anti-depressant meds that I cannot even begin to tell you how many different forms were prescribed. Finally after 3 years I saw another neurologist in Royal Oak, MI who searched the web for a Dr. that could handle my probs. I was referred to Dr. Wouter Schievink @ Cedars Sinai Hopsital in LA. I have had 5 back surgeries which involve a laminectomy from T-2 thru T-12 with fibrin glue and gelfoam patches. I have cysts on each vertebrae which rupture and cause the CSF leak. I lost 40#, loss of memory, could not even recognize my family, I experienced tinnitis, vertigo, bad smells and taste, fell frequently, nausea, hallucinations, severe debilitating headaches, loss of vision and hearing, just to name a few of the symptoms. U of M hospital in Ann Arbor was one of the first treatment centers which mis-diagnosed my problem, they advised my family to admit me into a nursing home. Dr Schievink would be the person I would go to again and again. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me.
I had a similar experience!
I sort of had a similar experience! When I went in to have the blood patch they instructed me to sit bent over, curling and sticking my back out like a cat. They preeped my hand to draw the blood and started to put the general anesthetic in. As they started to insert the epidural I fell unconscious. I only remember telling the nurse in front of me that I was feeling woozy. When I woke up the 2 anestisiologists had me pinned to the table and I was histerically crying. I asked if the procedure was over and they explained that as they started the epidural I seemed to have a seizure. I was shaking and crying. It was a scary and crazy experience! They concluded that I brought on my seizure from being so emotional. They proceeded with the blood patch after that. I just thought that this sounded similar. Maybe we'll find out the reason for this one day! And I also am very confident in believing all of this has stemmed from the epidural I received during childbirth. Good luck!
would lik to know how you are now
I am also suffering form a various of symptoms after a spinal anesthesia from childbirth. A neuro-surgeon thinks Its probable I still continue with a persistent CSF leak. I would like to know about your symptoms, I never knew about anesthesia toxicity. I never presented a headache but have everything else indicative of a CSF leak at least that's what the neuron said. Thank you