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Week 6 (emergence)

Paul Grobstein's picture

Are we all agreed on reasons/directions to go beyond cellular automata?  And/or any other thoughts that have been on your mind this week ...

samkaplan's picture

Hmm...

Why can't I delete a comment that I posted by accident?

Ann Dixon's picture

ownership and reliability

I've done some reading about this issue, which is kind of interesting. First, in this system's architecture, comments (or replies to forum topics) are attached to existing nodes (a blog posting, a forum topic). The ownership of your comment/reply then is actually not your's but the person who started the thread. And you can't delete what someone else owns.

The second interesting bit is that it might be more intellectually honest to prohibit editing and deleting comments which are part of a wider discussion. Suppose you wrote something, and then someone replied to what you wrote. Is it then reliable and honest for the system to allow you to edit your original comments? when someone else's thoughts were based on what you originally wrote?

 Just some food for thought. I periodically spring clean and delete empty/near empty posts so don't worry about extraneous stuff around.

 Ann

rob's picture

emergence and social science research

i've been thinking about the different levels of social science research and how they parallel studying emergent systems. in anthropology, many studies are done through ethnography where the researcher literally goes somewhere, talks to the people there, looks around and writes about what they see. sociological studies, on the other hand, are often more statistical in nature and involve analyzing entire populations and social structures through looking at large data sets that include information from many different communities and places. although a society is made up of communities, the differences among communities make it so that only looking at one community at a time is insufficient to understand the whole system. at the same time, statistics for a whole population are often so abstracted and removed that they indicate little of what's actually happening on the ground.

The techniques available for researchers wishing to study small, local areas differ greatly from the less personal tactics used to study entire populations, and therefore people end up saying different kinds of things about what's going on in the system as a whole based on what level of activity they're looking at. anthropologists doing localized studies are more likely to talk about things like stories and images and culture, which are best studied by actually talking to and observing people. statistical analysis on the other hand lends itself more toward analyzing the overall shape of the economic and political system. so, even if we accept that complex structures emerge as the synthesis of smaller, simpler units, we still may find it useful to analyze such structures on different levels as different attributes of the system may be more evident on certain levels than on others.

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Lauren's picture

CAs in multiple overlapping dimensions

Taking that thought one step further, I have caught myself - up until now - thinking of smaller, simpler CA units as linking together in a linear fashion, much like a 2-dimensional puzzle. However, in the case of CAs, the observable presence of "randomness" and "increasing complexity" over time suggests that there is more than meets the eye. What if, in looking from a more 3-dimensional perspective, CAs function in layers where observers can only perceive the combined function of the outermost rule with the "invisible" rules present underneath. Like layers of paint in a masterpiece, it can be hard to see through to the most basic foundation without immediately observing how all the layers blend together. This blending can cloud the true nature of each level and lead the observer to see "randomness", where only the power of a super-observer would enable him or her to see that each piece logically fits together. Perception is inherently limiting, especially when science strives to be all-knowing.

robert's picture

social science research and emergence

i've been thinking about the different levels of social science research and how they parallel studying emergent systems. in anthropology, many studies are done through ethnography where the researcher literally goes somewhere, talks to the people there, looks around and writes about what they see. sociological studies, on the other hand, are often more statistical in nature and involve analyzing entire populations and social structures through looking at large data sets that include information from many different communities and places. although a society is made up of communities, the differences among communities make it so that only looking at one community at a time is insufficient to understand the whole system. at the same time, statistics for a whole population are often so abstracted and removed that they indicate little of what's actually happening on the ground.

The techniques available for researchers wishing to study small, local areas differ greatly from the less personal tactics used to study entire populations, and therefore people end up saying different kinds of things about what's going on in the system as a whole based on what level of activity they're looking at. anthropologists doing localized studies are more likely to talk about things like stories and images and culture, which are best studied by actually talking to and observing people. statistical analysis on the other hand lends itself more toward analyzing the overall shape of the economic and political system. so, even if we accept that complex structures emerge as the synthesis of smaller, simpler units, we still may find it useful to analyze such structures on different levels as different attributes of the system may be more evident on certain levels than on others.

asmoser's picture

Religion and The Universe as Information

One of the ideas that we touched on briefly in the semester was the universe as information. I first encountered this idea in a novel by Philip K. Dick called VALIS where, interestingly enough, it is also used to suggest the existence of God as a purely transcendental being that in some sense is the universe. That is, God-is-the-Universe-is-Information. I think this is a fascinating way of introducing a god-being into a scientific worldview and fits very well with what we have discussed regarding emergence and the formation of the universe. If we find it important that CA (among other things) can work as turing machines, the idea that the entire universe is information being stored and processed can have some implications worth pondering.

For explaining consciousness, we understand that the universe-as-God is in some sense conscious, and that we as parts of it are reflections of that consciousness. Isn't it possible that some specific "Garden of Eden" pattern created the original consciousness which grew more complex but was able to reproduce itself in some form in all life? We are on some level just information, created from the long strings of information we call DNA; composed of electrons which (theoretically at least) will always move to the same next location leading to the possibility that our actions are entirely predetermined. VALIS also presents the idea that when the god-being was created, it had a twin which died not long after coming into existence. Dick uses this to explain our own strange behavior to some extent: "38. From loss and grief, the Mind has become deranged. Therefore we, as parts of the universe, the Brain, are partly deranged."

What does most of this have to do with emergence? NOTHING! But it's a cool way of thinking about the presence of God in an emergent universe and fits decently with the rest of that theory. Also, Philip K. Dick truly believed that in 1974 (maybe 72) he had an encounter with this purely transcendental God which communicated with him through a pink laser and told him about a potentially fatal birth defect in his son. Hooray tangents!

falvarez's picture

Garden of Eden?

I'll make my post short and sweet, like a chocolate covered oompa loompa:

So we talked about garden of eden patterns in the Game of Life. Some patterns have been found. But we who have found them exist outside of that Game - so my question is whether or not we would have been able to find them from within that system. Okay, so that's worded strangely, but what I'm really getting at here is whether or not we'll ever be able to discover our own Garden of Eden patterns. Is there a difference between something that doesn't exist in nature (plastics, alloys, Cher) and something that cannot exist naturally in our system? What is that difference? Perhaps God falls into the latter category, an outside influence on our system, something that has no form INSIDE this world (just as we do not exist in the Game of Life), but can nonetheless affect outcomes and patterns that form there (again, just as we affect what occurs in the Game of Life)?

 

[/oompa loompa]

samkaplan's picture

Halting Problem

Sounds like the halting problem. No turing machine can solve its own halting problem.

natsu's picture

Why I Like Equations

Since there have been some discussion about equations and models during class, I've been thinking about just why it is that I like equations and models so much. I always find it surprising that some people make faces when an equation comes up, because to me, equations seem like the best thing in the world,. They just seem to make everything so much more easier to undertand. I hate it when text books go on and on for pages and then finally give us the equation. I feel like, "Oh, why didn't you just give me the equation in the first place!" It's the same with models. I love seeing things that fit perfectly in models; they appear to be so beautiful. I acutually don't really like the fact that I like equations so much. I wish I was able to be the kind of person that doesn't like equations at all, but in all reality, I find them really useuful. So why is this? One obvious reason (to me) is that they just seem safe. I don't like things that are not predictable, and having an equation that can tell me exacty what the outcome will be is great. And I've been thinking that another major reason might be because I'm just not really fluent in any language, and that during my life I've had to study in languages that I don't really understand too well. So equations seem the clearest to me because I don't have to bother with trying to understand what the words are saying. I don't think that a lot of other people are in the same situation as me in this aspect, but I do think that one reason why people have always created equations and models may be so that people in the world who don't speak the same langague can communicate and learn from their findings in the most fair and efficient way...

samkaplan's picture

Two Points

One:

People seem to have problems with the idea that all human life, or indeed all life in general, is governed by rules that are to some extent determinable. Isn't it possible that, just as a specific cellular automata may seem random when we observe only one of its vertical strings, we are similarly observing humanity from a limited perspective? Can we perhaps not see the "entire cellular automata," so to speak?

Two:

While it is clear that we need to move beyond cellular automata for a complete understanding of the universe, I can see at least one possible way that they can be combined with randomness to produce a viable model of evolution. Imagine strings of DNA as cellular automata that produce the complex behavior in human beings and other life forms. Now, in between generations, these strings of DNA encounter genetic randomness--reproduction--which transforms them in some way. Thus, it is possible for cellular automata to be salvaged somewhat as a model for the emergence of multi-cellular organisms, consciousness, etc.

falvarez's picture

One Line

I was speaking with Alex about this for a bit and some interesting points arose:

(I'm just babbling them randomly)

Is it possible to reduce DNA to such a simple model? If I recall my bio correctly, DNA operates through the nucleotides, which form codons (sets of three nucleotides) which then code for different proteins, and using the appropriate form of RNA (tRNA?) link together the various materials for said proteins. In this case, there is no true binary operation occurring - codons aren't on and off, but instead they code for any number of proteins. Are you saying this a multi-state CA, one state per protein and an "off state" for the DNA Stop Codon(s) that ends the protein construction?

DNA is more a set of instructions, no? Therefore perhaps it operates more like the Rules Set than the CA itself? And if it's the Rules Set, then perhaps the CA that actually occurs is in the protein synthesis via the (t?)RNA? Or maybe it's just semantics...

Perhaps DNA is one of the irreducible elements that the CA has provided, but still functions in somewhat analogous ways?

Jessica B's picture

DNA and rules for humans

An interesting thing about DNA is that the genes aren't activated randomly. Very often, we carry a potential for something (psychological disorders, physical diseases, etc.) which are activated according to different situations. So I might have a genetic predisposition toward heart disease but never experience it because of diet, exercise, and possibly just luck.

This doesn't refute the idea that DNA might be the simple instructions that guide us, but it is an interesting point to keep in mind. Like all instructions, DNA needs "input" to function.

I think the reason people (such as myself) are resistant to the idea that humans operate under simple rules like CA is because of consciousness. We are aware and can come up with new ideas and change our psychical surroundings and social situations. Someone brought this up in class (I'm sorry, but I can't remember who) with the example of revolutions. People are able to look outside their immediate situation and see how the world might be if something was changed and plan for the execution of that change. That is not possible with CA since it operates in an absolutely deterministic world.

samkaplan's picture

Yeah I Don't Really Know Too Much About DNA

But I thought it was an interesting idea nonetheless.