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 I, too, have been participating in this group because of my interests in understanding the relationship between randomness and order in connected systems. Where we are now seems very far from that. I'm fine with the distance, but I am troubled by the direction.

It seems like we are trying to "move beyond science" based on the limitations of formal systems. This has lead us into a number of directions, and I am completely lost. I understand Godel's and Turing's arguments, but I find that these lend no support to moving beyond science. I don't even think that they warrant moving beyond formal systems.