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Why, I Say, White People Can't Dance (And, Yes, It has to Do with Race/Culture/Rhythm, Appreciation, & Respect)
Introduction
For me, saying white people can't dance has nothing to do with the typical answer that they don't have rhythm. I think the reason for it includes some parts of that, but also something more systemic or structural - race relations and learning cultural contexts.
Dancing is a language (in the way we think of, respond to and through language). Its movements are its words and its grammar is its rhythm. Don't get it twisted; rhythm and grammar are really one in the same. The dictionary defines rhythm as the procedural aspect of a beat or flow.[1] Procedural means the rules and regulations. There are rules and regulations for grammar (i.e. sentences have to have a subject and a verb: She cried.) Again dance is a language—means of expression. It probably is the most articulate form of body language. The analogy I am making here is that the body language we use when talking is also language, but it is what would be comparable to everyday speech. A dance move is comparable to a well-formed speech or lecture. Lastly, a dance performance is comparable to a paper, essay, poem, novel, book, etc.
By all of this, I mean to say that when I say white people can't dance or at least can't dance with black people, I mean that they have not only not picked up a certain set of rules and regulations associated with the body and the overall beat of (black) dance, but also—in many cases— have not picked up the overall flow—philosophy of (black) dance. (To go further understand what I mean by the flow—think of it like overall meaning or point or culture of dance. Refer to the diamond footnote on page 3 for more info.)
I think this phenomenon is linked, in part, to the Puritanical tradition and white culture's fundamental devaluing and mistrust of the knowledge gathered from and experienced through the body. This tradition comes into direct conflict with the African tradition and the traditions of the African Diaspora, where the knowledge from the body is not only valued just as much as the knowledge from the mind, but continually used, acknowledged, and sought after.
This fundamental difference of perspectives regarding the body has led to different philosophies and rules of engagement regarding dance and movement—in other words, black and white people talk differently and that leads to miscommunication, misunderstanding, and even disrespect.
I am aware that this essay grossly—indiscriminately—lumps all white people and all black people together without addressing the variations due to cultural perspectives, attitudes, or expressions. I understand that what I say about black and white people does not apply to all people or groups contained under that distinction. I know there are some white people, who may be black, culturally & phenotypically, as well as there are some blacks that may be white, culturally & phenotypically, as well as know there are innumerable categories that complicate and problematize what I say here. Because of the urgency of this essay and my limitations, I cannot do justice to all those stories. The hope is that everyone will step up to the plate and do justice to her story—for everyone's sake—because the world needs to know you are out there.
Dance in this essay is primarily referring to black American dance—black American culture and procedures (rules of engagement). While I talk about dance generally and my specific experience with dancing at a club, I mean to connect that conversation to American black and white race relations, generally, and my individual experiences (as a black American woman of Belizean and Southern American heritage) with white people, specifically.
This article gears towards showing a connection between the specific and the structural, the private and the political, the everyday and the yesterdays, the present and the History, stories and the metanarratives. It also gears towards giving everyone language in which to talk about dancing and race relations in America. It also gears towards airing out my frustration caused at the club that day—It is my healing (I had the hunch that it would be other people's healing as well). Once again, I apologize if this speaks too loudly for any one group or dance style.
This article is written for all people, but especially white people. By white, I am talking about white Americans and by black, I am referring black Americans. This essay intends not to forget about the white people who respect and value black culture and what it means as well as black people and what they mean.¨
It also does not intend to forget about the white people who not only respect and value all the things said in the paragraph above, but have learned to dance with, (not at), black people through acculturation (i.e. growing up with, not next to, black people), through learning about the history behind our vibration, and/or through somehow intrinsically picking up the rhythm. Thank you. You all, in the words of Jessie Jackson, keep hope alive. KEEP DOING THAT!
Now I want to let you all know why I am even writing this in the first place….
My friend Adaobi (black American woman of Nigerian heritage) texted me, last Thursday (5/10/07) saying that she is tired of doing physics and wanted to go dancing.
[Let's pause right here: the reason or shall I say need for dancing was for a release. So already it has another meaning than just simply dancing's sake or because she was bored (nothing is wrong with that by the way. I'm just making a distinction here). Adaobi wanted to dance for peace of mind. Okay, let's continue]
So, we go to Sister's, which is located in Philadelphia. Although Sister's is generally frequented by white people, Thursday nights were admission plus 8 drink tickets for $10. This coincidentally was the night that the most black people showed up.
We get up stairs to the dance floor area pumped and ready to move—release, heal, let go. Then I began to notice two groups that predominated this party: black people and white people. The dance floor's energy was not a united energy. It was choppy, disconcerted, and actually sort of hostile. Because of this, I watched and analyzed as I danced as well as got angry at the series of things that went on that night—most of that anger was felt towards and because of the white people at this party.
Now, knowing all of these interesting details, I hope I got you hooked on finishing this article. Below is a more detailed description of what happened last Thursday night. It is followed by a possible solution to this persistent problem of black and white people (not) dancing together.
Ethnography of Last Thursday Night at the Club
Description and Background
Walking up stairs to Sister's dance floor, I, cheesing and laughing, hear the booming music. The room was surrounded by mirrors on each wall, a bar was on the right and the DJ booth was diagonally from me. There were disco lights and mainly 70's disco, hip hop, and R&B playing. The sidelines were carpeted with a few stools against the mirrors. I noticed that black and white people predominated the party and actually, there were slightly more black people than white people. Black people were on the perimeter, on the carpet and near the mirror, and white people were in the middle of the dance floor.
Here, I see the weirdest thing I have ever seen at a club: The black people were dancing in the mirror. Now, I don't mean one of two, but about 15 black people in total were dancing in the mirror with themselves—completely disengaged from the dance floor and actually having a ball and cheering looking at themselves move. Behind their back was a dance floor filled with white people. It would be a stretch to say that the white people were dancing. I saw white people making out, falling on the floor, standing talking, and, I think, moving.
Now, like Adaobi and I said that night, I don't mind people having sex or falling on the dance floor, so long as they are doing it to the beat. Let me pause here and make another analogy to dance and language: Dancing to the beat means staying on topic in conversation. When people dance to a song, they are agreeing to engage with its beat—its topic. It is like going to a lecture about Spiderman. You expect everyone to be willing to talk about Spiderman if they entered the lecture hall. So that is what (black) people entering a dance hall expect. It gets annoying to talk to someone if you are focused on a topic and they are off-topic and tangential. It is even more annoying when the person doesn't refuse to stop talking. Replace talking with dancing, topic with beat, and off-topic with off-beat and read the previous sentence again.
The Abaobi and Me connection
Adaobi and I were doing exactly what we came to do. We were vibing. I had more of a hip hop expression while we were dancing (talking) and she had more of an African dance expression, but there would be many times when what we did looked eerily similar and even, we would begin doing the same movements together spontaneously.
We were smiling, jumping, stomping, waving our arms and heads, dipping, wining, and turning (on beat of course). We looked like we were celebrating something (or just really excited about what we were talking about or maybe just really excited to talk to one another). At times when I noticed that I did not look at her enough, (look engaged in conversation with her), I started to look at her and give her encouraging responses when she danced such as "Uh, oh” or "okay now.” (Think of shaking your head in affirmation when talking with someone). I did that to make sure she saw that I saw her and appreciated dancing with her. Sometimes, we would teach each other something. I would start doing a movement and she would do it with a question or hesitation in her step and then look at me for correction or confirmation, then I would do it again, then we would do it together. It took seconds for each of us to learn what each other was teaching because we had such a strong basis of communication before hand.
How Black People Responded to Us
Black people were responding to us as if they were wondering how did we find the energy to dance that way, in a space like this? Because our style was not typical even if it was also based in tradition, black people did not know how to enter our conversation. So instead, they looked at us and smiled. Some tried to do it too, I caught them in my periphery, but when I turned around, they automatically stopped, like they did not want me to see them attempting to learn our styles (language).
We could see black people smiling at us and pointing to other black people to come watch. Because our style was so different, they let us have our space to enjoy our language together, our culture together. They did not come and impose on the space, even though they liked what we did (how we sounded), because we were so into it. They wanted us to enjoy our time together. This was giving credence to the importance of giving people the space to enjoy their individuality.
Other black people created their own space regardless of what we were doing some where else while still giving us our space. We did the same to them. The powerful thing is that we all were moving and expressing ourselves to the same rhythm, the same beat—overall philosophy.
How White People Responded to Us
Adaobi and I did not want to dance in the mirror or the sidelines. We felt the dance floor was as much of our space as it was anyone else's. So we danced on the dance floor amidst the white people. The energy between us was clear. It was clear that we were in deep conversation with one another.
The white people completely seemed to disregard this. At the beginning, a couple of them came in our space range of dancing (our conversation). Bothered, Adaobi and I moved. I assumed, innocently, that they must have not noticed that we were deep in conversation. I also felt bothered because they were unaware that their presence limited us and forced us to find new space. However, I swear that white people kept doing this about 20 times that night. I thought the white people would see the pattern of my annoyance. But that was a hope in shallow well. That is when I noticed this behavior could not be a random act by the white people at this party. It must have been the result of their language, their culture, their misunderstanding and even their disregard of our language and culture. That is when I connected the event to the structural, the behavior to the culture, the symptom to the syndrome.
My awareness heightened and I began to pay attention to what was happening and what was being communicated at the club. Below is the list of all the things white people did that night that let me know that (1) white people and black people speak two different languages (when dancing) and (2) how white people and black people danced together (or next to each other) was representatives of how black people and white people interacted with (or to) one another.
The List of Things of Disrespectful Things White People Did to Adaobi and Me
Because the list is so long, feel free to skip around. Us refers to Adaobi and me. Enjoy, because I certainly did:
A) Say Excuse Me Cuz I Exist!
White people kept dancing or walking through us while we were dancing, without saying excuse me or acknowledging our presence. (The black people walked around us and even if they walked through us, they apologized for doing so and looked us in the eye).
B) I Will Not Tap Dance for You!
I stopped dancing because I got upset at what happened in A. I moved to the mirrors and the side lines staring blankly at the dance floor, the white dance floor. A white girl sitting at the bar tapped Adaobi and me and said that we are really great dancers and have amazing energy together.
I got excited because I felt that finally a white person gets it and acknowledges it. Then she followed up by saying, "Can you do it again. Go do it again. Go, go back on the dance floor.” She said this while simultaneously pushing us on our lower backs and still saying come on dance again. When we didn't move and looked at her like she was crazy, she went back down to sit with her black partner. I said to myself that I am not your puppet, I am not dancing for you. Then I realized once more, white people don't get it. She didn't even get that we left the dance floor because we were so offended by white people.
C) Just Cuz You Know the Words Does Not Mean You Know What I'm Saying or
If Ya Don't Know Wat's Cookin', Ge' Outta Da Kitchen!
We go back on the dance floor because we got so much energy from dancing with each other, we wanted to release one mo' ‘gain. That is when things heated up for me. The white people began to try to mimic our steps—our words. Then with excitement for learning this new word the white people tried to use it with one another. Fine, whatever, so long as they stay away from me with it because once the white people took it, it was no longer mine and I no longer wanted it. This is an example of what I mean:
Seeing this white girl take the step that I was doing, messing it up, and showing it to her friend like she invented it, is like a person taking an artifact because it was "cute” or "cool” that was originally used for blessing a child and putting it on a mantel to show all their friends. It no longer serves it original purpose, it no longer means the same thing in that new context. When a person, who views the artifact as sacred, sees its new use, they may feel gravely offended and even disown that artifact because it was now defiled.
D) I Don't Belong in a Museum or You Can't Box Me In!
A group of three white people started coming close to us, again, without being invited in the space—which happens through eye contact and acknowledgement. They start doing the only black dance movements (words) that they know—yes they knew the words but not the appropriate usage.
They literally started closing Adaobi into a box, which was interesting because it looked like Adaobi was dancing her black dance encased by white people and their stares. I already left that circle when they welcomed themselves in without waiting for our reply.
Adaobi finally broke out of that and found me on the sidelines, again, watching the dance floor. She taps me and says, "I know you were heated. I am really sorry.” We stared at the dance floor again, in disbelief.
E) Doing the Electric Slide: Black People Uniting to Takeover the Dance Floor
(But the White People Almost Foil Us Once More)
This was my favorite part of the night, well at least for a while.
Some of the black girls that were primarily dancing with themselves in the mirror started doing the electric slide—which is a really popular line dancing form for black people (we do it at every family reunion). Adaobi and I see that and we begin to join in, not from where we wanted to begin but from where the girls were currently. Very quickly, all the black people that were on the sidelines or in the mirror began to join. We quickly took over the entire dance floor.
Before this, you wouldn't have known that there were that many black people in the club. So, finally I am happy. Happy that black people stood up, as a unit and demanded that people, who couldn't get with the rhythm, back the fuck up (or people, who couldn't get with the lingo, shut up). Literally, if you didn't know it, you were likely to get pushed or stomped on by someone accidentally and even purposefully.
We finally got a chance to be as black and as loud as we wanted to be. It was very clear that we were saying something. We looked like a disco-army, sharing in one unified understanding or flow. Yes, we were all in one grammar but each of our sentences looked very different from one another. I was spinning my arms as I moved. Some one else was moving their shoulders a lot. Someone else would dip low and long. Some smoother cats would glide. Adaobi had a little African style to her electric slide.
Surprising almost all of the white people did not reenter the dance floor. Well at not least for a while. Then this white girl, who I remember was one of the white people trying to mimic me and Adaobi, tried to come in. Okay, fine, I could understand if she practiced before she came in or at least knew something about the step. Nope. She jumped right in stepping on people and getting in people's way. This is when the problem began.
There were three rows of the electric slide. This black girl was trying to form a fourth row, when the white girl jumped in. Because that white girl kept stepping and falling on her, she quit trying to make the fourth row and went back to standing on the side lines near the mirror. Finally, when the white girl realized that we were moving regardless of her and without the intention of trying to include her (no black person tried to show her what to do), she left the dance floor.
I asked my friend Kathy Huynh what would she have said to that girl. I said that the girl looked like she was appreciating what we were doing. Should I say that white people should not try join in with black people's conversations? How would anyone learn? Then Kathy brilliantly replied, "I would tell her, ‘Thank you for appreciating and wanting to genuinely learn what these black people are doing, but also give them the time and space to appreciate their own culture, for themselves.'” I will leave it at that, because I couldn't have phrased it better.
F) Grrrr!: Overt and Blatant Disrespect
As Adaobi and I are dancing, this white guy does not only bump into me, but stays there pressing the crevice of his back into my shoulder and arm. I was like, "He must not notice I am here.” So I pushed him off of me and said "Hey, watch it.” He looked at me surprised. I thought that meant that he was really didn't know that he was doing that and wanted to apologize, so I stood there waiting for a reply. He says nothing, humps my thigh three times, and pinches my butt. I screamed and said, "Get the fuck off me.” Then amongst me screaming and walking away from him, he runs up and humps Adaobi's butt three times and then runs back to his crowd of white people.
Farewell to Hell
When we left the club and got to the bus stop, I just started kicking and punching this poster on the bus stop of a large white man's face while also screaming. I turned to Adaobi, apologizing for my screaming, thinking she must think I am crazy. She replied with a saddened face, "No, Shayna, don't worry, I understand. Trust me, I understand.”
I kicked and punched to poster, because I felt helpless. I thought that there was nothing I could do to stop what happened at the club—what happens almost every time black and white people dance together—interact. The only thing I could come up with, is writing this article, hoping it would change some (white) person's perspective, hoping that white and black people could interact in a space without being offended by each other, and hoping it would help me heal from my hurt that night. Hoping—it seems like that is the only thing I ever do next to speaking up about my feelings. It hasn't changed much thus far. And to tell you the truth, I'm getting tired of hoping and discussing. I am tired of putting my self out there—(on the dance floor)
Maybe that is the same reason why all those other black people were on the sidelines and in the mirror. They were tired of trying to interact with white people who did not even have the slightest interest in knowing where they were coming from, what they are saying, or respecting and appreciating what they value. It speaks so much for our society today, yesterday, and, sadly and most likely, tomorrow.
(End of Ethnography)
Creating a Solution: Eliminating Racism
Through Learning to Dance
Here is my theory: White people should learn or at least try to learn how to dance black while simultaneously either valuing it as much as they value their dance or at least respecting it as much as they respect their dance. Remember now, I am using dance as a synonym for language and as a synonym for culture. Keep this in mind and it may be easier to replace dance with culture and vice versa in this passage.
The reason that it is critical for white people to learn the dance of black culture is so that white people can be not only aware of black people's perspective, be sensitive to it, and value it as good and valid, but so they can work to eliminate the privilege given to whiteness—meaning those characteristics and people in America that is termed as white. (Having privilege here means having special value. So white in America has special value at the expense of black)
That means dismantling the privilege given to knowledge that is predominantly mind-originated and working for a valuing of knowledge that is holistic meaning knowledge that incorporates the body as well as the mind. That means dismantling the privilege given to aspects of American society that have been structured and conditioned primarily and predominantly by white people—i.e. our school system (colleges and universities too), the standard in which we evaluate performance and intelligence, etc.
This work aids the process of eliminating racism which is having prejudice (ex. white is always better) and the power to enact it (ex. A white person stopping a black person from getting X job because that black person is not white, culturally or phenotypically). Racism is also believing in the inherent superiority of a particular race. The implication of believing in the inherent superiority of a particular race is that all those that do not fall into that category become less than or somehow deficient or down right bad.
Now, what that means is that white (culture or features) have become sacred in American society—hence the statement, "White is always right.” So, for some people, it may seem horrific or like a tragedy to speak of dismantling what they have held so very sacred. Let me specify here. I do not mean that white gets devalued when I say white privilege should be dismantled. No, on the contrary, white people should value their whiteness (whatever that means for people), just not at the expense of another. Shoot, I value my blackness (I know what that means for me. Email me about it if you want to know). I can't stand when white people say, "I hate being white” or "I hate white people” or "I only like black people." NOOOOOO! Don't eliminate privilege by self-hatred, white people. Eliminate privilege through either working to give everyone privilege (value) or conversely, giving no one privilege (value) over another.
One may ask why blacks don't just learn to dance with white people instead of white people learning to dance with blacks. Well, to whoever you are thinking this, what I have to say is that black people have been shucking and jiving with white people for years. It's time for whites to give up some privilege, for peace's sake.
For our survival, black people had to know the white person's rhythm (culture). Look at English Ebonics[2] and "standard" English. To write my papers in college, I had to use and learn the grammar of "standard" English when I usually speak in the English form of Ebonics. I would always tell my professors, why can't I just talk to you or debate with you rather than write a paper? Or why can't I write a poem or do a dance instead of writing an essay? This is not saying that writing is not important, for it is, but why can't I couple it with another form of expression or even another dialect of English? (I believe this has to do with valuing and devaluing. Or "following tradition""meaning following "white is right." People don't like to admit this to themselves.)
This is also represents a battle inside myself to stay sane because I have come to value certain aspects of white culture, but also know that those aspects are rooted in a disregard, disrespect, and a devaluing of black culture, something that I have internalized and made sacred inside myself. So often, this battle, at times, makes me want to throw away or destroy anything that is white inside myself or any symbols of whiteness around me or conversely, throw away or destroy anything that is black inside (outside) myself. Dubois talks about this in his reference to the "double consciousness" of black folks. He says
His [the Negro's] double-consciousness, this sense of always looking at one's self through the eyes of others, of measuring one's soul by the tape of a world that looks on in amused contempt and pity. One ever feels his two-ness,"an American, a Negro; two souls, two thoughts, two unreconciled strivings; two warring ideals in one dark body, whose dogged strength alone keeps it from being torn asunder.[3]
Since I can't escape white culture in this society, the only way to reconcile this terror inside of me is to help alter white culture to value black culture"to value me. That is what this article intends to do.
So now I am saying white people have to learn to dance with us, if they want to unlearn racism and reconcile its effects. I realize that I have gone as far as I can go with trying to dismantle racism. White people, it is your turn. It can only be finished if you let it be finished.
Furthermore, it is important for white people to know and value the dance of black people's culture (or of any person of color's culture) because white people in this country have been bred to be mono-cultural and bred to devalue other ways of being that are not like theirs. This has the consequence of further obscuring reality"or realities that are strongly felt and lived by others. So, in a sense my particular double consciousness is both a blessing and a curse. However, it does not have to be a curse. It is only a curse because one of the consciousnesses that I have come to value degrades and tries to eliminate the other consciousness that I have strongly internalized as my basic self. It is a blessing to have more than one way of looking at the world. For example, I learned in a neurobiology class that the nervous system has at least six ways to receive the same information: hearing, touch, taste, smell, sight, and proprioceptors. As my professor said, "It helps us get things less wrong as well as adds more depth to what we perceive."
In other words, our body purposely has multiple perspectives that come into conflict with one another in order to get the sharpest notion of what actually is going on. This is reason enough to unlearn racism. Racism prevents people from a depth and sharpness in their perception. Conflicting realties are not inherently bad. People make different ways of seeing bad. Our nervous system seeks different perspectives, knowing that difference can not only be helpful, but also good.
To relate this again to dancing: That is not telling every white person to go find a black person and ask them to teach you their culture. That is ridiculous. What I am saying to white people is, be aware that (black) dancing has a grammar"rules of engagement. Try to find out what they are in a respectful manner that has in mind that not every black person, all or any of the time, is interested in teaching white people their grammar. Keep in mind that there are some things that cannot be spoon-fed and require the arduous task of experience and learning by oneself. Also keep in mind, like my friend Kathy said, give black people the time, space, and respect to appreciate, enjoy, marvel in, get relieved by their own culture, by themselves.
Also, more importantly, keep in mind that black people learn your grammar by spending time with white people and in white and white-originated institutions. That is not saying that white people should flood black communities and black institutions (that has all sort of problems like gentrification, and violating the importance of respecting organizations and spaces for affinity groups).
What it is saying is that something will be lost if you just learned black culture through books, movies, television, music videos on BET and MTV, jazz C.D.'s, other forms of recorded black music, artifacts, and whatnot. Basing one's view of a people solely on any one of these can be problematic on so many levels, especially since the media grossly misrepresents or complete stereotypes of what they choose to portray of black culture.
What I am saying is to also GO TO THE PRIMARY SOURCE"black people. That first means putting a face to all that you love of black culture and loving that face as well"loving meaning valuing. This does not make everything accurate or peaceful, but like I once said, you would be skeptical of someone's ability to speak Spanish if they told you they never met a native-Spanish speaker, never been to a Spanish-speaking country, and solely learned Spanish and what they know about Spanish culture from reading a book.
All and All
If white people begin to work to actively dismantle the privilege given to whiteness and give value to blackness, if this occurs, one day right there in Alabama, little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers gettin' down wit their bad selves. If this occurs, I believe white people and black people can finally dance together, well at least figuratively.
That's my story and I am sticking to it. Peaceeeeeee. No, seriously, peace.
¨ I admit some people, even some black people, don't know or haven't thought of what black culture and black people mean in America literally. That is fine because I am willing to bet that those acculturated into black culture know what it means intuitively"in other words, they know it through its feeling or feeling in general. Recognizing what black people mean includes valuing them as human-beings"living, rational, irrational, and moral beings. But what I truly mean is valuing their contributions as a people to not only American society, but also American identity and culture.
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Comments
The reason some black people
The reason some black people like you have issues is because you have the amount of pigment in your skin as your identity. If you ask me who I am I probably wouldn't list "white" but if I asked you one of the firsts things you would say is that you're black.
The white girl in the club trying to join in didn't see you as "black people". She just saw people dancing and wanted to join in.
The whites touching you're hair wasnt doing it because you was black. Im a 17 y/o white woman and i always touch anyone's hair for the record! it's not a "white" thing though you're just paranoid.
White people just don't see colour as much as you obviously think and that's why many of us don't even believe racism exists that much anymore. (Here in England anyway). We see our own race as normal and everyone else as normal too but they (you) appear to separate *yourself* like putting yourself into breeds, like dogs.
I wanted to understand why peole still whine about racism so I just imagined myself as a black girl and there was a vague sense of isolation so I totally understand the "two souls" description. The reason for this is not other people's fault, it's your own for being insecure.
I know it's not written well but try and *get* what I'm saying. As a woman, did you ever suddenly get the feeling that the penny dropped and you suddenly *understood* things, not just the meaning of the word?? Empathy? Try and understand because I totally thoroughly understand what you says but the thing is you're wrong!!!
I've got so much more to say about this but it's 5 in the morning and I'm not that articulate
i agree !!!But a black man
i agree !!!But a black man cant dance like a white man with class style and non sexual.Like a gentleman
Mixing metaphors:
Saying "white people can't dance" is kind of like saying "black people can't do calculus."
Dangerous, sad and false.
Anyway. I'm blonde and blue, a professional gogo dancer and hula hooper. I've danced with and for people of all backgrounds and ethnicities. Your essay is just kind of sad and underwhelming.
You've made such a detailed study of the ways "white" people affected your experience, and much of it was totally legit (people invading your space, or behaving in sexually inappropriate ways). But you also spent a lot of time deriding the expression (the "grammar"?) of "white" dancers because their performance didn't meet your "black" minimum requirements of funkitude. And interpreted this as a purposeful affront on your cultural expression.
Sure, there are differences in dance across cultures, but you can't argue for sensitivity and insist upon privilege at the same time.
What I'm wondering as someone who has danced to put food on my table is: would we have mutually acknowledged each others' space? Would we have perhaps danced together? Or would I have had to take your ass to school? :)
See you on the dance floor.
go go dancing, are you sure
go go dancing, are you sure that's a real type of dance, You want to know what real type of dancing is, it's called liquid dance, poppers, Ravers, Well this article is about white people in bars/nightclubs and not like formal dancing like Dancing with the Stars. There's a difference, in clubs you dance to popular music and on television, it's all choreographed. So this article is about white people in nightclubs, and it's true. There are very few white people who stand out of the crowd, personally myself I stand out of the crowd. It's not because I'm Asian, it's because I dance like no ones watching, I'm a raver, and no I don't take E. If you go to a rave then there are some really skilled white ravers, So this is only referring to regular nightclubs. So that is my opinion.
I think it comes down to the
I think it comes down to the type of music that's playing. It's easier to drop it like it's hot to Snoop as opposed to Britney Spears. I think some people try too hard to dance to music that they don't normally listen to, then they make for a funny story while you're taking a dance break at the club.
The thin line
What is wrong with this essay? you were saying you were indiscriminate and you are absolutly right, the root word you should have chose, was effort.
“They can’t speak the language of music.”
I am a musician, I also speak art, dance and yes I am white. Now I can already see you writing, well, I’m not implying everyone or you but I’m implying the majority of a white society, I’m assuming.
Maybe I need to re-read your paragraph but nowhere did I see, I tried to make an effort to understand their dance, instead, you noticed all the negatives around you and forgot the whole “enjoying your time.”
So you want people to make an effort to understand your dance, to understand culture but have you considered Ballet? Have you considered waltz? These are more uptight/graceful dances, do you think you could pull it off?
There are two root problems, neither of them having to do either with racism or discrimination, rather your personality.
You didn’t make an effort to compromise or come to our level or vice/versa
I find you very negative (For example..)
"you wouldnt be that womans puppet."
(you could have politely said, Thanks for the compliment, we are taking a short break but will going back soon or something along that line.
I play piano, when I hear someone playing off notes; it does bother me but think about it, at one point in my life I was driving someone else crazy, they endured my off notes and crackly voice for hours, hours spent and well today I built something from nothing. I am bringing my children up on my value of music, although I can get a headache, you have to learn somewhere right?
It is the progress/results that make you realize all those headaches and notes made a nice song of “twinkle twinkle little star.”
Now none of us are perfect, we all need to vent in a positive way but have you ever thought of actually showing someone, taking a minute or two of your time, to show someone a piece of your language? If you see someone doing wrong, have you ever said, here try it this way?
Just another perspective..
I feel sorry for the white
I feel sorry for the white girl who obviously took a positive and enthusiastic stance with regard to the "disco-army" and tried to join in with the electric slide. Kathy's "brilliant reply" doesn't convince me at all. I imagine that girl felt excluded and ignored and perhaps a little humiliated. I wonder if she punched a poster of a black man later that night. If you really wanted to heal from the hurt of that evening, try turning to some genuine empathy and understanding instead of clinging to your prejudices.
"YOU dont get it"
This is the most offensive, racist, ridiculous thing I have ever read. "white people don't get it"?? you don't get it sweetheart. you think youre clever because you compare dancing to a language? this is just another way for black people to dump all their problems on the "white man." stop blaming other people for your issues. people are rude no matter where you go. I've been shoved by plenty of black people and white people alike, does that mean no one gets me? dont go to a club if you dont want people crowding you. and newsflash, the electric slide was created by a white guy, and my family does it at every family gathering. the electric slide isnt a black thing. you have a problem with someone shoving you, or pinching your ass, take it up with them not an entire race. i've had my fair share of black guys grabbing me at clubs, but i dont blame you for that. or maybe i should, clearly it must be all black people who are pigs. same logic, but gasp, because im white it makes me a racist, yet because youre black youre standing up for yourself? what a load of shit. you are to blame for black people's problems. i am an amazing dancer, and not because i have learned your language but because i can dance. dont tell me the only way i can dance is if i learn to be like you. id rather never move again then be a closed minded racist. if you hate white people so much, then dont go to a white club. or better yet, stay home and dance in your living room, then no one would bump into you. do us all a favor and stay home.
"Fred Aistaire, Gene Kelly,
"Fred Aistaire, Gene Kelly, Paula Abdul, Ginger Rogers, John Travolta"
Case in point.
"Excellent essay! Very
"Excellent essay! Very interesting how merely talking in an informed way about the disconnect between Black America & White America generates so much anger and denial. For those who want to be color-blind, consider this metaphor from the Deep South. Universally all kinds of people wear all kinds of clothes, but when the University of North Carolina plays Clemson in football and you are in the stadium, you are either BLUE or you are ORANGE. In that context, trying to make an abstract argument that, "But Gee, Wally, there are *all* kinds of colors in the spectrum!" misses the point of where you are, what's happening around you, and what emotions are dominating that physical space. Likewise, in North America, there are people of all sizes, shapes, and colors, but our history has created a cultural football game in which people are either BLACK or WHITE, and the game is still on."
Maybe you should consider that not everyone who posts here is from America and that strong divides don't exist as strongly everywhere. Blind to other countries and cultures ?
HA!
Ever been outside of America ? ? ? ?
"Imagine with me that you are in the same club, and a black man approaches a white woman he does not know, and humps her leg. Do you think the club will remain as peaceful then? Will all the white men be perfectly content to define that as 'just two individuals?' Or will all heck break loose? More to the point - is anybody willing to put it to the test and find out? I doubt it, because our own instinctive knowledge tells us that carrying out such an experiment would all too likely create a dangerously explosive scenario. But I am open to information to the contrary, so - carry it out if you want to, then reply to me here. Until then, I consider my "thought experiment" to have made the point."
Ever considered that humping a strangers leg in a club is inappropriate ? No matter WHAT colour ?
You didn't think of that in your "little experiment", did you ? The much more pressing question in this scenario is: Why not !!!! ?
"What Shayna has done here is use a public scenario to brilliantly cut through thick layers of societal denial, and expose the constant hatred underneath. As one person explained, hatred hinges on fear. Many white respondents here are terrified of what Shayna wrote"
Not in the slightest. I wouldn't even know why one would be "terrified" of what she wrote. But my guess is that it must have to do with something going on in America between racist "Blacks" and racist "Whites", I do not experience such things here, atleast nowhere near the obsessive extremes I've read coming from American "Blacks", I think there (America) is a lot of deeprooted hatred against "Whites" (and vice versa), something I also don't relate to in the slightest, so another thing that doesn't give me ammo to be threatened by a non-threatening text.
I think it would be good for you to know that humans originate from Africa and that that means all humans are somewhere connected to Africa. Of course that doesn't change the atrocious things "Whites" have done to "Blacks", oh wait, SOME "Whites" have done to SOME "Blacks"... and I think that is something one should look at; it is not ALL "Whites" who were slavemasters, infact, many had nothing to do with slavery, so to tar all "Whites" with the "EVIL WHITEY" brush is really utterly, fucking retarded.. as retarded as some "Whites" thinking every person with a turban is a terrorist... I mean, COME ON..
", but it spills over in the same form it has for the better part of a half-century -- pure hatred and rage."
That's really simplifying things. I also think you have a bad case of blocking out your very own hatred and rage and put all things of the very simplified notion on the "White Man".
"When your insides are gripped by pure hatred and rage, it's much easier not to know it. Shut it off, and live inside your head. That's the only way to stay at peace without constantly going insane."
Is that what's going on with you ? Because I sense a pure hatred and rage coming from you. Oh, it's easier to point fingers and say: "White Man Bad Man, wrong for ALL my misery", whilst denying ones own hatred towards a whole diverse group that is conveniently thrown together; atleast be more selective and precise with who you are targetting. Not all "Whites" had to do with slavery, not all "Whites" are racist, not all "Whites" even think about those things, not all "Whites" are purely "White", not all of those "hidden Black Whites" are descendents of "Masters and Slaves", not all "Whites" relate to this "White" Culture you speak of, and so on....
We are the Human RACE. Skincolour is biological protection from the sun in different regions in the world.
Ignorance is not tied to one ethnic group.
"... Puritanical tradition and white culture's fundamental devaluing and mistrust of the knowledge gathered from and experienced through the body" is an absolute necessity for White America"
I think that's a quite outdated notion. In mainstream western culture the body is now celebrated and, when you look at the western and even eastern musicvideos, it's a diverse mix of ethnic groups; the boundaries are dissolving.
What is "white culture" and can one even use such statements today, in a steadily deteriorating and uniformising "global culture" ?
"If anyone believes in themselves enough to go and really test out my "thought experiment," I say that the immediate result will be that the black man will be thrown out of the club the instant he humps a white woman's leg.
And he will be thrown out by his black peers in the club."
Any man should be thrown out of the club (considering the woman doesn't want her leg humped by a stranger), regardless of skincolour. It's scary you wouldn't even consider the thought that a woman may not like it.
Meaning, being humped by a STRANGER.
I doubt such scenarios are always a matter of race issues.
replying to the cynycism of "anonymous"
Anonymous writes:
"Maybe you should consider that not everyone who posts here is from America and that strong divides don't exist as strongly everywhere. Blind to other countries and cultures?"
Perhaps you're right. Perhaps I should. Perhaps you should also consider this. I see no evidence to support your notion that Shayna's essay was ever intended as anything but a comment on USA socio-culture.
anonymous writes:
"?Ever been outside of America ? ? ? ?"
Yes. I made it a point to discuss American culture with several citizens of other countries, specifically to inquire as to their point of view on the USA. Have I passed your little test now? Are you finished with labeling me? Do I get a chance to respond now??
It is tragically clear that you *still* fail to get one of the main points, as have several other posters. I cannot cite the news story without a lot of digging, but I recall it clearly. In that news story, a young Asian man was walking down the street minding his own business, and was killed by members of an urban gang. They killed him because he failed to respond to their demands to identify himself by telling them which "color" (i.e., which gang) he belonged to. He did not identify which gang he was part of, because he was not associated with either gang. In fact, he did not even understand their question. However: in the minds of those gang members, there were only two kinds of people in their world - Gang X, and Gang Y. Can you honestly not follow that parallel? C'mon, give it a try - I think you can see it if you want to.
Alternatively, you can choose to sit in your armchair all day long huffing and puffing at me, explaining that there are *many* more people besides Gang X and Gang Y, and you will STILL have missed the main point -- just as you already missed it once in my "football" analogy above. The assumptions and the thought processes in those gangs is an exact parallel to much of the USA as a whole. It goes like this: (1) there are two basic kinds of people, and (2) they are black and white. You obviously don't know history, or you would see that there have been about 5 centuries that have contributed to that mental duality. There were about three and a half centuries in which white slavers from a handful of European countries bought and sold black slaves to other white people. Entire civilizations grew up around that duality, including the USA. That overwhelming historical trend is largely the thing that set up the scenario we still have in people's minds. To deny that the duality exists in people's minds despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary is to be overwhelmingly ignorant of history, sociology, and culture. That ignorance makes it very difficult for me to reply to you in a meaningful way, but I did my best. I still don't think you'll get it, because I don't think you want to get it. And THAT, my kind friend, is exactly what Shayna's essay was all about in the first place.
At least you are beginning to think, even if you have not yet begun to examine your own thoughts.
Thanks for responding.
"Dancing - if it can be said
"Dancing - if it can be said to be communicating anything - is certainly a very primitive and unsophisticated form of language. White people, by their nature, do not use such a low level language since they have evolved a highly advanced and scientific culture with a written and spoken language which has completely replaced pagan forms of communication.
Generally, dancing is just a bit of fun for young white people and not something to be taken seriously."
You don't come across as a Thinker, Thinker
Primitive Passions, Scientific Minds, All Dancing Together
I find delicious entertainment in comments like these:
"Dancing - if it can be said to be communicating anything - is certainly a very primitive and unsophisticated form of language."
Well spoken. Ballet is beneath you. Those silly feather-costumed dancing men and women up on stage believing themselves to be swans, and such paganism as that - they should become Christians and stop all that foolish animal nonsense. They should get computers, and do something sensible with their time.
Then there is this:
"White people, by their nature, do not use such a low level language since they have evolved a highly advanced and scientific culture with a written and spoken language which has completely replaced pagan forms of communication."
This marks you as the sort of "advanced scientific" mind who scorns silly old Mozart in favor of listening in ecstatic trance at those little scientific clicks and hums your computer makes. You are much more scientific than those 'primitive' people such as Beethoven and Van Gogh, whose minds were clouded by their primitive 'unscientific' passions. Obviously we must also include poets like that upstart Keats and that silly old Wordsworth, and writers like Pat Conroy, whose passions come through in their writings. Certainly Michaelangelo communicated NOTHING in those dirty statues and pictures of naked men:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelangelo
Such a waste of time drawing pagan nakedness, Michaelangelo's mother must have been disappointed. He might as well have wasted his time dancing.
Thank you for putting this in perspective. Otherwise I might have gone on seeing value in ancient Egyptian papyrus records from 4,000 years ago pretending to know about a psychiatric condition we know for a fact was never discovered until Freud and his "white scientific culture" discovered it in about 1900. Scholars call them "papyrus cheat sheets," since it is impossible that ancient dark-skinned Egyptians really knew things that were not even discovered until about 1900.
"Generally, dancing is just a bit of fun for young white people and not something to be taken seriously."
Absolutely. Especially those naked men Michaelangelo was obsessed with.
Paul
How is "white" defined ? I
How is "white" defined ? I think of Europeans, which is a B R O A D mix. For instance, Spaniards and Italians, being part of European culture, are brilliant dancer; there goes your theory.... I also always am secretly bemused by the arrogance of people with darker skin who get off on saying that "whites" have no rythmn and that "blacks" are so much better dancers, the arrogance and dullness of such statements make the "dancing better" unsexy because what is of the most importance is the life behind and beyond, or within the movements, authenticity, genuity, so a person who has the right moves but the wrong heart/brain will not be a "good dancer", imo. Furthermore, I'm absolutely positive that if "whites" were raised more bodyconscious/aware of body and rythmn, they'd be better dancers in no time. So it's not really something that comes with mothers milk but in the society or culture you grow up in, therefore it's quite silly to believe, if one does so, that "whites" are naturally bad dancers.
This article especially the
This article especially the title is a perfect example of how hatred of white people either by other races or by whites themselves is encouraged. Here, on an alleged college website, this garbage is accepted. If someone were to post an article changing a few words in the title example :Why________ can't _______________ (You fill in the blanks )using politically incorrect words such as anything critical of non-whites,they would become instant pariahs. This article is very racist .Since I'm Jewish I will show how ignorant, bigoted racist it is by substituting Jews for whites using common David Duke-like anti-semitic comments as examples :Why "Jews" can't be "be trusted by non- Jews" or "can't get along with other people and have been expelled form countless countries" . I reject the idea it's open season on whites. For the author of this racist article consider :Why whites are the best dancers examples Fred Aistaire, Gene Kelly, Paula Abdul, Ginger Rogers, John Travolta. I could name hundreds more but I have much more important things to do with my time.
I like how your final
I like how your final paragraph is titled Creating a solution: Eliminating Racism and then go on to list all the things white people need to do not to offend you. lol Funny how all the stupid little things that these people did to annoy you is considered racism ignoring the fact that all you did all night is hawk eye white people and take note of everything they did. sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulder and is to blind to think you yourself might be racist.
White people CAN dance.
Has anyone watched Dancing with the Stars? Has anyone watched a Russian Ballet? It's cultural. Has noting to do with race.
Black people also need to stop the double standards. If white people say something about black people, it's right away called racist yet black people can get away with saying what they want about whites. I'm tired of the political correctness bs.
I'm white, voting for Obama and YES I have used the N word!! Get over it. I hear blacks using the N word every other day and calling white people all kinds of names. Double standard?
What is "black dance"? Do
What is "black dance"? Do you mean dances from Africa??!! Who goes to a CLUB to do their ancestral dance?
Brilliant Essay, Beautiful piece of socio-surgery!
Excellent essay! Very interesting how merely talking in an informed way about the disconnect between Black America & White America generates so much anger and denial. For those who want to be color-blind, consider this metaphor from the Deep South. Universally all kinds of people wear all kinds of clothes, but when the University of North Carolina plays Clemson in football and you are in the stadium, you are either BLUE or you are ORANGE. In that context, trying to make an abstract argument that, "But Gee, Wally, there are *all* kinds of colors in the spectrum!" misses the point of where you are, what's happening around you, and what emotions are dominating that physical space. Likewise, in North America, there are people of all sizes, shapes, and colors, but our history has created a cultural football game in which people are either BLACK or WHITE, and the game is still on. If you do not believe that is real, then let's try a little something that physicists call a "thought experiment." Imagine with me that you are in the same club, and a black man approaches a white woman he does not know, and humps her leg. Do you think the club will remain as peaceful then? Will all the white men be perfectly content to define that as 'just two individuals?' Or will all heck break loose? More to the point - is anybody willing to put it to the test and find out? I doubt it, because our own instinctive knowledge tells us that carrying out such an experiment would all too likely create a dangerously explosive scenario. But I am open to information to the contrary, so - carry it out if you want to, then reply to me here. Until then, I consider my "thought experiment" to have made the point.
Humping some stranger's leg is a message, and in this case it was done in public, which made it a public message. That action was a human billboard, and it gave the exact same message that has been repeated many times during the last 300+ years. It said: "You are mine. I will do to you as I wish, because I own, you, and you belong to me." Slavery may be legally over as an institution, but it is obviously not over in the mind of a man who would publicly hump the leg of a woman he does not know without her permission.
What Shayna has done here is use a public scenario to brilliantly cut through thick layers of societal denial, and expose the constant hatred underneath. As one person explained, hatred hinges on fear. Many white respondents here are terrified of what Shayna wrote, but it spills over in the same form it has for the better part of a half-century -- pure hatred and rage.
When your insides are gripped by pure hatred and rage, it's much easier not to know it. Shut it off, and live inside your head. That's the only way to stay at peace without constantly going insane. The "... Puritanical tradition and white culture's fundamental devaluing and mistrust of the knowledge gathered from and experienced through the body" is an absolute necessity for White America until such time as somebody declares the fierce competition of the White Vs. Black Football Game over and done with. I have a prediction. If anyone believes in themselves enough to go and really test out my "thought experiment," I say that the immediate result will be that the black man will be thrown out of the club the instant he humps a white woman's leg.
And he will be thrown out by his black peers in the club.
Brilliant, brilliant essay, Shayna. Please continue to follow this line of thought, if you feel so motivated. This kind of dialog is needed desperately.
Paul
Second Thought Experiment
Interesting, Paul. You are correct that humping some stranger's leg in public is a message. But, you don't say what that message is.
So here's a second thought experiment.
Two women dancing together in a public club. One especially keeps getting angry at "invasions" into "their space".
When a young woman attempts to befriend ("invade") them she is rebuffed. So far as can be told by the story, though she says the blacks appreciated their dancing and covertly attempted to imitate it, the blacks did not try to either befriend them or invite them into their "black" groupings.
Neither of the two women dances with a man or even seems interested in doing so. No man approaches either of them to ask to dance with them. However, at some point, the women position themselves so they are dancing very closely in the crowd and a man is pressed up against one of the women. Her reaction is to become irate and to physically shove the man and yell curses at him, probably drawing a lot of embarrassing attention to herself and her friend. The friend in fact walks away. In response, the man reacts to being physically assaulted by "hump dancing" the woman who attacked him and then by rushing over to her friend and humping her too.
First off, there is NO evidence that the man had been deliberately "assaulting" the young woman by dancing so close that his back touched her. She even admits that was possible he didn't even know he was making contact. Then after she shoves him and yells at him, she interprets his stunned silence as some kind of "admission" that he had been consciously making contact. What nonsense!
So, let me propose a second thought experiment, and I'll add my answers.
The two women were white.
Would the man have hump danced them when one of them shoved him and yelled at him? DARN STRAIGHT
Explanation:
He was straight and he (and I daresay everyone in the club) saw them as lesbians and when an alleged lesbian assaulted him he sent "the message" that all she needed to "straighten her out" was a good humping by a man like him.
Next half of the thought experiment, with my answers.
The man was black.
Would she, as a black woman, have shoved and yelled? NO
Would she have done so if she were white? ABSOLUTELY NOT
Would a black man being shoved and yelled at by a black woman have just bowed, apologized and walked away? NO, NO, NO
Would a black man being shoved and yelled at by a black woman have probably done exactly the same thing the white man did to the two young black women?
MOST LIKELY
In the end, how possible is it that the crowd saw these two women as troublemakers and probable lesbians? Remember, the writer says that even the blacks would abruptly stop when she caught them trying to copy her dance moves.
That doesn't sound like admiration and respect. They couldn't possibly have known, unless they already knew her, that she considered her dance more than a form of entertainment. If they did, they probably wouldn't have even tried to mimic her moves to begin with, especially if, as blacks they held the same "black" cultural attitude to dance. I believe that the reason they stopped and turned away whenever she caught them copying her moves was because her face showed her extreme displeasure no matter who was doing it, black or white.
My other "anonymous" critic
My other "anonymous" critic writes:
"Interesting, Paul. You are correct that humping some stranger's leg in public is a message. But, you don't say what that message is."
Actually, I did say what the message is. You just didn’t see it. Here it is again, quoted for your singular benefit:
“It [i.e., the message] said: "You are mine. I will do to you as I wish, because I own, you, and you belong to me."
What can I say? How can I respond to someone who constructs a whole reply built around a lack of attention to what I said? You put me in a difficult spot, there, “Anonymous.” Far as I am concerned, you have made one point here, and that is your inability to understand written words. Obviously if I respond to you, you will overlook anything else I say that you don’t like. Again, that was the main message I saw in Shayna’s essay. Again, you didn’t get it.
I can’t see that there is much else to say.
So I will let your own violent anti-gay bigotry have the last word.
“Anonymous” wrote:
“... everyone in the club) saw them as lesbians and when an alleged lesbian assaulted him he sent "the message" that all she needed to "straighten her out" was a good humping by a man like him.”
To the writer!
(Below are a few appreciated quotes and writing from the people who wrote them above) Maybe you can do the same!
"You don't have a problem with black people copying your dance moves because theyre "sharing" but if white people do it then theyre stealing it off you and it's no longer cool anymore"? -Erin
"As a black male, I found your essay highly entertaining but not serious. The whole article is laced with barely disguised hatred for whites. You have done a wonderful job of building a relationship between dance and language. I find myself in agreement with that, BUT... Your constant finding of faults with whites in the club was just that...constant. Your writing bled resentment to where each race physically danced, your obviously aggressive move to dance in the midst of the "enemy", and your veiled disgust for the white girl dating a black man (why that needed to be included still has me chuckling). I do believe good dancing comes from the soul and the ability to align the spirit with sound. I dance alone, in clubs, and even took up a belly dance class for the love of movement. In one month, I can tell you without shame I was doing better than 3/4 of the senior students. Why? Because they were mostly white? Actually, I believe it is because they never let their spirit respond to the music. They danced by rote and checked the mirror too often where I mostly closed my eyes. One of my fellow students asked me how I got so good and I told her to let go of shame. I had her stop looking at the mirror and look elsewhere. Her dancing took on a more natural rhythm and we all admired it more. She is white, my fellow dance partner, and can shimmy with the best of them. Let go, free yourself, and dance without shame." -Jerr
In a multi-racial, multi-cultural society such as our own it seems anachronistic and discriminatory to make value judgments about rhythmic (or arhythmic) movements. Indeed, it reminds me of the journals of the European explorers, who derided the art and culture of other societies simply because it differed from their own. To wit: talking of "taking over the dance floor" is bizarre and suggests a simulated cultural aggressiveness that accentuates "racial identity" at the cost of tolerance and multi-cultural integration. If you don't like the way people are dancing at a club, or if they copy your moves, or bump into you, or for any other reason, there's no reason to go there and impose your values. You have no greater claim of ownership of that space than anyone else. Furthermore, symbolic violence against an image depicting someone who is of the same race as people who just irritated you has dangerous associative properties. If I was disrespected or frustrated by a group of latinos, it would not be appropriate for me to burn a Mexican flag. Among other obvious objections, because there are many spanish speaking countries other than Mexico and it's an ignorant assumption, equally ignorant as the assumption that lumps all caucasians together as a monolithic, monocultural group.
Finally, I would just say that dancing is a recreational activity that varies in form from individual to individual and culture to culture and attempts to judge forms as "superior" or "inferior" displays a cultural insensitivity at best and veiled racism at worst.- Statistic
What I have to say:
So if a white person wrote a paper on this same topic, would you take back your words, since anything that somebody takes from you, is no longer yours et. etc.!?
This is AMERICA...black, white, jewish or any other race for that matter, everybody is free to dance the way that they want. BTW it's a dance floor it is going to get crowded...so as for invading your space...I didn't see anywhere in your writing that you asked for some space around you! Also if somebody was copying "your" dance maybe it is from admiration, or maybe not, but would you be so courteous as to ask them or, even show them how to do it NO! You say that "whites" don't understand your culture but have you done anything to understand theirs...doubtful. Instead you run away from your problems, and blame other people for YOUR mis-communications or mis-understandings.
P.S. my race..who f#@*ing cares!
Pseudo-intellectualism.
This sounds like the kind of awful pseudo-intellectualism which plagues modern liberal education.The kind that is commonplace today since standards have been lowered to incorporate more ethnic minorities.
Dancing - if it can be said to be communicating anything - is certainly a very primitive and unsophisticated form of language. White people, by their nature, do not use such a low level language since they have evolved a highly advanced and scientific culture with a written and spoken language which has completely replaced pagan forms of communication.
Generally, dancing is just a bit of fun for young white people and not something to be taken seriously.
The young lady who wrote
The young lady who wrote this article was analyzing social and racial interaction. She was expressing the way the white people disregarded her culture. And you just said in words what the white people showed at the club, that you have no regard for her culture. She was expressing frustration and even presenting a well though out solution to the problem.
Your response is hostile and disrespectful. You did not have to read the entire blog if you were so deeply offended.
As far as dancing is concerned: Dancing is art. It comes in a plethora of forms associated with various religions, occasions, cultures, countries, languages, ceremonies, and occasions. It transcends all these things, bringing people together. In addition, white people engage in many forms of dance (such as ballet, jazz, tap, as well as hip-hip). Does that take away from their intellect and ability to articulate?
Dancing is not a replacement for being articulate with words. Dancing compliments such articulation. I respect anyone who can articulate with words as well as their bodies.
Dancing requires coordination. It requires time and dedication to perfect what appears to be the simplest dance moves. Dancing is complex and is not "low-level" as you called it.
There are many college educated people who I know who are future engineers, doctors, nurses, business people and architects who are excellent dancers.
Life does not have to be one thing or the other. Rather, it is a combination of skills that make us well rounded. It is a balance.
Plus, I get the feeling that you may have two left feet.
God bless and best regards.
One last thing: I am not a liberal, so save it for someone else.
Question ...
Just a question about dancing ... for those who love to ...
When you dance, do you get this sensation that you are outside of yourself? I mena like you can see how the moves appear from others' point of view? Sort of like having a teacher out there looking at you, correcting, helping you adapt the style, in a helpful way? It's weird sounding, but I bet it's not all that uncommon of an experience for those who like to experiment and perfect their moves.
Agreed ...
I agree with everything you said, especially like your approach to analyzing the situation. Very thorough.
I'm white and I can $%@#'in dance. Same with my brother, since he was a kid, it was purely natural. Now he's an uptight Christian and we'll never see those natural-born skills again -- such a shame.
I loved the way you spoke of using the body as expression. And when I hear music, alone or not, I have to dance. I love live music and feed off the music. I experiment with moves, borrow from what others are doing, mix it up. It's an incredible feeling. I have a hard time finding others who feel like I do about music, so dancing can seem lonely, but I don't care. I'd rather be the person by myself dancing than sucking down a beer, sitting on the sidelines.
"But as an Afro-Latina if I
"But as an Afro-Latina if I wanted to learn traditional Indian dance, I know that I can't roll and shake and grind my hips the way I do in my culture--because that would be rude, nor could I drop to the floor and start spinning on my head."
Of course you can... Livens up the Dancefloor.
"It just does what it pleases. So to all the White people who are responding all offended, read your history and how white supremacy has affected communities of color around the world AND in the US---don't just read the history of those other people and assume that you know them. You need to know what effect you just being in a room full of people of color expressing their tradition with disregard causes."
I'm white and my history is a mix of all different cultures (including West Indies -> Africa/South America), you wouldn't know by looking at me. So what is "my" history as a "white" person ? One has to be a bit careful when judging a person by their skincolour. And not everyone identifies with "white supremacy", nor should they, there is more to "white" than "white supremacy".
Greetings,
Rosy Caramel Sand
White People responding---read your own history first, please
This is larger than just dancing but yes I'm a dancer and I understand. I am an Afro-Latina who dances salsa and it is very frustrating when north american white people invade the dance floor doing all sorts of things. I understand now it is not that they are bad people but it is that they do no understand the dance floor etiquette of my particular style. Likewise, I dance other african inspired dances, reggae, soca, etc. and find the same thing. They see us dancing and assume anything goes. Well---that is not so. There are rules, no they are not stated or written rules. These rules are rules learned growing up in a particular community. Like nobody teaches kids in the US that touching strangers affectionately is awkward, but in the Latino culture it isn't awkward at all. With certain styles of dance--hip hop, reggae, salsa, merengue, bachata, break-dance, soca, calypso, bachata, tango, taking up space on the dance floor by standing still, talking in a group or dancing with your eyes closed or unaware of the people around you (i.e., bumping into people, etc.) is incredibly rude. IT IS A CULTURAL DISRESPECT. ESPECIALLY when it is a partner dance--salsa, merengue, etc. Historically in this country however, most white people (not poor ones so much) have always had access to everything. The museums here are full of stolen artifacts from peoples of color all over the globe, north americans often co-opt musical stlyes, language, ways of dress and talk that have historically belonged to and come from people of color, etc. And while dance is and should be universal, you have to remember that even for those people of color who are from the US, their culture and community is also something that belongs TO THEM. In the same way that when travelling outside the US, you adopt certain behavior so as not to disrespect other people's culture, the same should happen to those in the US as well. Unfortunately, this country has in general been considered to be "white" and therefore white people can do anything they please. This doesn't mean you shouldn't learn something if your interested in it. But as an Afro-Latina if I wanted to learn traditional Indian dance, I know that I can't roll and shake and grind my hips the way I do in my culture--because that would be rude, nor could I drop to the floor and start spinning on my head. Because I have never nor my people never had the access to go anywhere and do anything or say what we want without recourse historically, it is in fact more common for me (as a person of color) to think: hmmm, maybe I should just look first and then ask what is inappropriate or not. Well the US government, culture,, capital etc. doesn't work that way. It just does what it pleases. So to all the White people who are responding all offended, read your history and how white supremacy has affected communities of color around the world AND in the US---don't just read the history of those other people and assume that you know them. You need to know what effect you just being in a room full of people of color expressing their tradition with disregard causes. The event of her being accosted like that by those white men is horrible--because it is a trait from many years of violation of the black female body, not just some guy being rude. All of us should dance---whatever dance we please, even if you're bad at it! But if it doesn't belong to your people just ask out of respect: is it okay if you dance, and if yes, what is the etiquette? You can dance terribly and still remain respectful of those "unspoken" rules. Just ask, even though it's uncomfortable it's better to ask than perpetuate acts of white supremacy in its most subtle forms.
I was very excited about
I was very excited about reading Shaynas article and I fully agree. I also see your point. White culture has a long history of abuse and terror, colonialism, slavery, imperialism. We have a culture of innate condescension. This is unfortunately true. And black people are not the only ones suffering from it. White people suffer from it, too. I am German and I would say that 50% of Germans are not aware of this problem inside of themselves, and they are the ones who reproduce it, and keep giving us a bad name in this world. The other half of the Germans does not. They allowed themselves to be aware of the pains that devaluation had on them and deal with it contructively.
Next follows an example of how the system of DEVALUATION may reinforce itself. It's a bit besides the point, so you can just skip it:
Example:
I have lived in Britain and in Germany. In Germany it may happen that a total stranger will suddenly scream at you (totally out of proportion) because you committed a minor offence (in his eyes) in public, e.g. crossed the road when the lights were red. (If this were to happen to you during a visit to Germany, you might think it's racism. Maybe, but it could just be germanity). This NEVER happens in Britain.
But every German has to deal with this problem, but how?
This usually happens along those lines:
a) At the experience of public scolding you shriek (and be honest to yourself, even if you don't want to admit it, you probably do shriek inside)
b)As a result you get oversensitive and tense, expecting more offenses.
And now here are you options:
a) You get nervous and shout at ohter people who allow themselves what you are scared of doing
b) or you analyse the process, which allows you to keep acting decent.
This is specifically German, it is just an extreme example. But there are many examples of white-against-white devaluation.
I believe that DEVALUEING is a core or at least wide-spread problem in white cultures. However, every white person has the option to check him or herself. Also, there are differences in the levels of abuse that happened to each white individual, there are also good things happening. And there are differences in individual insight. Therefore there will be differences in how each white person handels the problem and acts out in this world. However a problem most often exists.
Yet, not everything done or said by a white person is a result of this kind of disrespect.
I wasn't at the club in the article, but I think the behaviour of the white kids need not be a result of disrepect - or at least not alone. A lot of the things that seem obvious to Shayna, they might just not know. It need not be that they are ignorant out of disrespect. The Inuit have more than a 100 different words for differing kinds of snow. I couldn't even distinguish the different kinds! Could you? I wasn't raised to PERCEIVE these subtleties (to my eye) or to PERCEIVE these blatant differences to the eye of an inuit!
So, in this sense: White kids don't understand your relationship with the dance. Dance has almost NO MEANING to white people. The white girl who copied Shayna, maybe just admired her. She had no idea that the moves contained meaning and were in a sense words adressed to her friend. The aspect of dance is almost completely missing in white culture (a lot more could be said about this). There are several comments here from white females who prove this point. They (e.g. the friend and the teacher) describe feelings I'm equally aware of.
However, we are intriguied by what we see the Africans and Afro-Americans do. I love dance, black American dance, I've been into it for 20 years. And I'm not good at it. And I'm not good at it, because I'm not aware of the cultural implications, despite my great interest. It is very difficult for us to find out, because as for the snow, we never grew up seeing as many different kinds of snow as the Inuit. I have learned a lot from the essay, maybe your are not aware of the fact that we are just not aware of the things Shayna's been writing about. Therefore I'm grateful for her essay and for the internet. Sometimes knowledge is so limited, that it is not possible to ask the proper questions. In Germany and probably in some parts of the U.S. white people have very little to no chance to learn about black culture. So, please consider, rude behaviour isn't always such, but non-graceful behaviour cannot be avoided in the beginning.
"It makes me crazy when
"It makes me crazy when white people say we should be color-blind. That it's just color.
No, it's not. It's culture. It's traditions. It's a difference of worlds."
Cultural differences, but not human differences.
If you want to NOT be
If you want to NOT be colorblind, lets bring up the issue of bio-diversity, which through DNA analysis has proven that black people were the first homo sapiens (Africa) and subsequently are the most primatively evolved of all the races. Asians show the most genetic difference compared to Africans are the subsequently the most evolved race while Europeans/Western Asia rest in the middle. These factors affect intelligence, physical structure, SOCIAL INTERACTION, and other aspects as well. Going by this chart ... Africa---->Europe---->Asia... you can deduce that African traditions involve the most primordial habits. This is not a criticism of the essay, merely a point about those who suggest racial differences. Each race holds an advantage over another, so it's incredibly ignorant to judge one race ahead of another. This is not to say that every Asian is smarter than every African, because obviously other factors such as environment, education, and heredity, play a factor in creating the complex processses of human life. Perhaps double standards should be addressed to, as they seem to run rampant throughout the article and in truth, society at large. But, it IS 5 30 and i have a bio exam in 2 hours... so maybe some other time.
human diversity, ancestral patterns, and colorblindness
Empirical science doesn't/can't "prove" things (keep that in mind for your bio exam), but it does give us new observations that in turn can help us find new ways to think about things (new stories). And comparisons of DNA in existing human populations is certainly among them. Those differences, along with other observations, certainly suggest that humans originated in Africa and subsequently migrated to other locations.
That's not though the same thing as saying that existing Africans, or existing people with recent African ancestry, are "primatively evolved," or that "African traditions involve the most promordial habits." All human populations have evolved since our origins, and continue to evolve. And it doesn't say anything about "smartness" either: there's no evidence whatsoever that there is any relation between "smartness" and evolutionary age.
Yep, people with different ancestries are different because of those ancestries, but no one is because of them more or less "evolved." Or, as you say, its "incredibly ignorant to judge one race ahead of another." Neither the new observations nor any older ones provide any empirical foundation for judgements of THAT kind.
I believe we are saying the
I believe we are saying the same thing, in slightly different words. You seem to be saying that biology and genetics really are not the issue here. I fully agree, and my way of saying it is to emphasize that sociology *is* the issue.
As I understand recent biological findings, race is an artificial distinction, one that has essentially no biological basis. Speculations about who is or isn't "primitively evolved" ergo are meaningless, except as expressions of personal or group prejudice.
At the same time, large sweeping historical trends have occurred around the BELIEF, the PERCEPTION, that race exists. Any time we human beings decide to construct large scale social institutions around Idea X or Idea Y, we socially create it as a reality. To use the "gang" example again: Apparently Gang X considers Gang Y to be "bad" people. To outsiders, there is no difference between one gang member and another. So which view is correct? The answer: It depends.
Some people have a difficult time getting their hands wrapped around sociological principles, because they are so abstract and slippery. Just because a person does not grasp something does not mean it is not real -- it just means it is difficult to understand. Otherwise, I could claim that aerospace engineering does not exist, because I don't understand it. Wouldn't I be missing the point??
Another example: Let's say scientific evidence demonstrates conclusively that Friday the 13th is not unlucky. Does that mean "unlucky Friday the 13th" no longer exists? The fine distinction is, unlucky Friday the 13th does not exist as FACT. However, it still continues to exist as SUPERSTITION. If that superstition means that people don't book airplane flights on Friday the 13th, then they reify that superstition into a fact that exists in the airlines' bookkeeping records. Does "unlucky Friday the 13th" exist then? Yes, as a superstition, and yes, as a financial reality. As an independent reality - no.
So that's really what we're talking about here - racial superstitions. They exist. They affect people's thoughts and behavior. Do they have an independent reality? No.
Are we talking about the same thing here? Perhaps you can clarify. Thanks!
White people can dance,
White people can dance, atleast more and more. Due to all the expressive music in the charts (very earthy physically orientated), the "whites" (or pinky beige tan etc) now have a more closer connection and it is expressing itself everywhere (atleast where such music can be received; globally, I'd think). So no, the generic assumption that "white people can't dance" is slowly becoming a thing of the past. Atleast with younger generations. And there have always been a selected few of older "whites" that can dance too, regardless of societies cultural fashions and fads.
it dosent matter
look I am a dancer myself and it dosent matter who wants to or who can dance the same way a white person can listen to rap and a black person can listen to rock dance is available to all there is no "black" thing and there is no "white" thing all is is just you being you
On Sign Language and Physical Communication
I think you make some great points about the lack of communication between blacks and whites (for the record, I'm white). But I think you missed something in your discussion of physical communication: sign language. I am deaf, and I am capable of both signing and speaking articulately. Technically speaking, I am hard of hearing, but I often feel more comfortable signing--it feels like a big relief to just be able to use my body to communicate, because to use my voice takes up so much energy and concentration (I have to consciously speak very clearly because I don't realize how slurred I must sound-especially if I'm not wearing my hearing aids). Using my arms and face and body feels so much more fluid and natural. Sign language can be viewed as a form of dance, especially when you're signing a poem or interpreting a song--you must involve your entire body to convey not just the words, but the feel and emotion and temperament of the poem or song. That's why it's so hard to interpret a poem from sign language into english or any other language. A signed poem is a visual story, it paints a picture with arm movements and facial expression. You might be able to interpret the actual words, but to be able to express them in the same kind of intense emotion and style of expression--if you can do that, you can write (and probably sign) your own poetry all on your own, forget interpretation. I love the freedom of expression that signing and writing give me. Voice seems to me to be such a limited field. It can vary, yes, it can express a great deal (I happen to enjoy listening to music a great deal, but not always vocal music), yet it is hampered by a physical reality--the extent to which you can push your voice--that dancing and signing transcend. You can go on, imagine a world utterly unlike your own, creating something entirely new with only your body, whereas no matter what your voice may describe, it will always be inhibited by the physical facts of what your body can or cannot do. In dancing, signing, you can imagine yourself something utterly different, create a whole, temporary, imaginative world by telling a story with the way you move your body.
But hearing people depend so much on their voice and hearing--too much, in my opinion. So often, even if there is an interpreter there, someone will speak directly too me, and will be surprised if I respond in sign via the interpreter. They are so accustomed and comfortable with using their voice, that they assume that I will be fine with using my voice, because that is what is most comfortable for them. Which, obviously, is a very ridiculous assumption. The comfort level of other people is not what you use to gage the comfort level of one specific person, so why do people do this so often when it comes to communicating with deaf people? I feel it is largely to do with the lack of communication. I have heard of mainstream (public or private schools with a hearing majority and bias) who refuse to pay for a microphone system for a hard of hearing student with hearing aids, pointing out that the girl (or boy) is an excellant student and is able to communicate with very little difficulty. The problem is that what they are really saying is that the girl is very good at her classes, and that teachers are able to communicate with her with little to no difficulty. There is nothing to identify just how much of the girls' comprehension and learning was done in class, and nothing to tell how well she understood the teacher--I'd bet six times out of ten (at least) she just looked around at what everyone else was doing, and copied them.
Deaf people are tired of having to work to connect with other people, and we are working as hard as we can to change the system so that hearing and deaf people work equally and are able to communicate with ease on both sides (as opposed to the hearing person doing little work and deaf people doing most of the rest--please note that I am still talking about communication, not who does the spreadsheets or whatever). On the subject of intercultural relations, Gallaudet University (the only deaf liberal arts university in the world--located in Washington D.C.) is extremely diverse, because deafness/hoh (hard of hearing) spans past cultural divides. I think that we are more relaxed and comfortable than most hearing people when it comes to these kind of issues because we all have at least one minority status in common, and deafness is a powerful way to branch across that divide and into a forum of understanding. Obviously, not everyone within our community gets along with everybody nor is everyone completely chummy. We are a society, and therefore we have all the markings and aspects that one would find within a cultural society. But in communicating with eachother, we all have our own accents and word usages which differ from cultural background to cultural background. Black sign has a distinct "attitude" of sorts--whereas white people depend mostly on their faces, hands and arms, black sign involves the entire body--posture, head position, facial expression, everything. There is a definite link between vocal and sign communication when it comes to Blacks. I am not saying it's better or worse, it's just different, and I would never tell anyone that the sign they used for "girl" is wrong. It would simply be a different sign that the one I would use. If we don't understand a sign, we clarify and leave be. We don't adopt other people's sign, for the most part, though signs obviously change from generation to generation and take on different connotations (the sign for "institute" now means "deaf schoo" in most communities--in my state, Maine, the sign specifically refers to "Governer Baxter School for the Deaf", but this is not universal; it's just within Maine. If I were to be at the northeast regional Gallaudet Academic Bowl and told people that I was from Baxter by using the hand sign, they would say "Well yes, of course you're from a deaf school"). It's like being from New York and talking to someone from Georgia. There will be a difference, but it's not anything to make a lot of noise about. I view dancing in a similar way (I have some experience with Irish stepdancing), there will be differences, there will be some confusions in communication sometimes. But their style is their style (whoever "their" is) and my style is my style. I'm not going to appropriate someone else's moves because I like them. If I want to know how to do them, I'd walk up and ask them to show me how to do it. If they say no, okay, that's no problem. I won't be offended. But I think of dancing as a way of communicating with the hearing people without a need for hearing or signing. We both enjoy using our bodies to express ourselves. To me, using our bodies in a way to convey a point or emotion is the best way of communication. It is a voice that transcends any vocal point, and it gets it across far more easily than a voice ever would.
I hope I've contributed something to this thread. :)
Why is it that black people
Why is it that black people can rip apart white people with absolutley no consequence?
Because it's been abundantly clear that ever since slavery white people will be to blame for everything wrong with african american people. Even though, slaver began in Egypt...and it wasn't white people that were enslaving those people.
Or take a look at the medeavil era...women were enslaved regardless of the color of their skin.
I'm tired of african american people getting away with everything because they were "once" segregatted against.
get over it
oh my god THANK YOU for saying this...this has been my thought for a good while reading all thiss n its comments .... why is it that black people (most of whome were not even ALIVE to suffer from segregation and slavery) blame white people (most of whom were to even alive to enforce/take part in enslaving others) for every problem they have. and if at all a white person has a problem with a black person, people are so quick to assume that the person is being racist or racially sterotyping. no, i dont have a problem with your skin color i have a problem with YOU...ironic since the assuming a white person to be one who thinks they are superior is just THAT: racial sterotyping. i dont mean to generalize all blacks and all whites, but i am honestly sick and tired of people thinking that everything i do is driven by racism just because i am white, whereas i am the one that has had to experience black people looking at me and instantly hating me and telling me to my face "its because ur white, white people think they are better than everyone else" im not even WHITE, i jus LOOK white, especially because i have blue-green eyes, eyes that i inherited from my BLACK FATHER. im honestly SICK of people holding onto slavery. yes it fuckin SUCKED but it is OVER so why are we still dragging it out and carrying on about it? yes there are people who wont hire blacks and are racist fucks but there are also blacks who try to intimidate and accost whites just for being white. honestly, its time to stop attributing asshole racist things people do to their race. a racist white isnt racist cus hes white, hes racist cus hes an ignorant asshole. a racist black isnt racist because he is black he is racist because hes an ignorant asshole. end of story. people need to let go of the past at some point and move the fuck on. build a bridge and get over it.
also, im sorry but, i am still VERY resentful of the fact that, as stated above, blacks seem to be able to say whatever the fuck they want about white people, and its just them having black pride, while if a white person were to say something of the same level, its racism. thats BULLSHIT, and yes i resent it. do i resent black people for it? no i resent the world for it. watever...
Greetings:I think your
Greetings:
I think your sample set is too small. I would suggest performing the same experiment at few gay clubs, a few predominantly male clubs, a few predominantly female clubs, and some with a mixed crowd.
I won't say what you'll find, but I suspect that it will give you more data to work with.
Why is it that black people
Why is it that black people can rip apart white people with absolutley no consequence, but if a white person made a comment like this about a black person there would be serious consequences.
Maybe the people who were dancing in the middle (regardless of what colour they are) just got there earlier!
dancing
I find that through the cultural restraints of "proper white society" dancing became a formal tak with steps that needed to be "learned" and only shared with prefered society through social lessons or "paid" lessons. I am Irish. I have always had the desire and natural talent to dance. I have only taken lessons socially at dance halls. I hate stylized formal dance. I prefer to talk, to feel to be me. I have learned to pass in a lot of situations of formal dance because it is all that I find available to me. I mimic the movements and feelings of the dance until I can do the actual steps or atleast follow someone. You are not alone in this feeling of contempt for someone that tries to mimic or fit in with out the proper technique or experience to pull it off. I had been invited to dance a contra at a festival the guy asking was delicious and I explained my lack of experience and he said it was ok people will help they love to include newbies. I got yelled at by a woman when I turned the wrong way. He said that was her problem not mine, but I left the floor not willing to return until I took some social lessons that weekend in the steps and calls. I was married for 20 yrs. my dad had taught me to jitterbug at 10 yrs old and I taught my husband. When I got divorced and tried to dance in social halls the men gave up on me because I was not submissive enough and "couldn't follow" them. They didn't know how to talk......the bars and discos today are more about socializing and drinking how many alcholics do you know that would take the time to go to a social hall where lessons are given but drinks are not served? Yes most white people go out to socialize in bars and around here standing room only is normal and making out on the dance floor is an equal opportunity sport for either race but I was taught to do the mashed potatoes by my black babysitters neices from Georgia at an early age so yes the talk is different but I have always felt comfortable to dance like no one is watching.....
I don't think you
I don't think you (like most americans) have realized that there's white and black people outside Usa too, and I'm pretty sure that u have never been abroad (okay, maybe you've been to mexico) So Why the hell ARE YOU SAYING THAT WHITE PEOPLE CAN'T DANCE!? YOU DON'T KNOW IT!
PS. Stop being a racist and tell that to your friends too! African american people should go to g.e. brazil and see how blacks, whites, latinos etc. are doing together!
Petter from Stockholm, Sweden (My dad is half lebanese-half swedish, and my mom is half turkish-half somalian)
WAS cool
You article was cool at first. You did a good job explaining why I can't dance. The farther I got into your essay the more offended I got. Instead of referring to the people at the club as "whites" you could have said "the white people at the club that night". By saying "whites" you are referring to us all. I have seen many "whites" who can dance. It's not fair and you have no right to judge us all the same. People of all colors go to the club to have fun. Those "whites" were there having fun, not worrying about what others think or if you were looking at them. You on the other hand couldn't have had fun. You were so consumed by others that you left the club crying. Why go to a club if you can't enjoy it. You know at a club there will be some many different people, No one person is alike. I'm sorry you had a bad night because you was in everyone elses business. Next time stay in your zone don't worry about all the "whites" around you. You have a serious problem with us "whites", and I'm truely sorry for that. I would love to see you dance. You should have attached a vedio so we could all see if you live up to all the talk.
Also people like you (OF ALL colors) is why most "whites" can't dance. We worry so much about what you are going to say that instead of getting up and learning to dance we sit and watch. THANK you for being different.
You don't have a problem
You don't have a problem with black people copying your dance moves because theyre "sharing" but if white people do it then theyre stealing it off you and it's no longer cool anymore?
white and black people are the same the only thing is white and
white and black people are the same the only thing is white and black
where is nothing rong to be white or black
there bot humans
why do people make a BIG!!! DEAL11
right brained disreguarding race
I am white, sicilian, cherekee indian among others. PLayed the piano by ear perfectly at three and won every art contest 1st place since Kindergarden. I have been asked by professional musicians how I learned to dance. I know its just my ear separating the musical instruments individual to my body rythyms individual. I believe the Italians are very strong on music and art as well as other cultures. America tends to not make it a priority these days as I believe the children suffer. I would have been naked as a child without it.
Different cultures have different beats but american culture needs to intensifty this active art versus depressive drugs. It is so theraputic. Although the government will make limited profits so it is of non-importance to them.
Why, I Say White People Can't Dance
When I first started to read this article, as a Caucasian Jew, I started to feel defensive. As I continued reading I found myself shaking my head in agreement. I've seen this behavior in clubs, in workplaces, on the streets and just about any public space. I didn't have any connection with people of color until my early teens in junior high school during integration back in the 1960's. I would say that the racism displayed by the white kids stemmed from fear. As a Jew I understood being an outsider and I watched the interactions.Mostly segregation in the lunchroom.I don't remember a lot of fist fights.This was in a working-class Italian, Jewish, Irish community in Brooklyn of all places. As a queer outsider to begin with I started to hang out in the donut shop at lunchtime where the African American girls hung out. We didn't speak much to each other but we danced together. They showed me steps and I followed. I looked forward to lunchtime then.The communication was in the dance.Our differences were there but there was acceptance at least within that hour where we moved our bodies and spirits in good humored appreciation of one another.
It embarrasses me when white people are rude to poc based on an assumption of superiority (an automatic assumption of acceptance is part of feeling superior).Most whites are not used to even thinking about that. I understand that this is not always a conscious assumption, most assumptions aren't.
So, thank you for the article.I'm sorry that white man had the audacity to put his hands on you. I'd like to kick him in his nuts!
Jerks...
I'll start off by saying that I only read up to "Creating a Solution: Eliminating Racism". I need to go soon, and I'm sorry if you covered what I am about to ask about later.
About the guy who did random humps: On behalf of all the people you have "lumped together", I am sorry he did that. Some people are just jerks. I would like to note that we don't seem to have the same problem (as much) in Australia. I believe this is because there are less Africans/African Americans, so seeing them is something of a novelty. If you take the converse of that, then there is only trouble when Africans/African Americans are not a minority. Now just hold your horses, and I'll explain. I can see two possible explanations for that:
One is what you were probably itching to defend when you read the paragraph above: What I would explain as an "inflated sense of pride" shown by coloured races. The other explanation is that white people treat a minority with a kind of mild neglect, and "don't think highly" (to put it politely) of non-minorities (which we know it true, for many white people). What this comes down to, is that white people just don't care about things very much: We don't respect others' customs cause we couldn't imagine protecting our own so much. This, I'll admit, is kind of disgraceful...
Being white, I would say that coloured people overeact, but by the same token, I would say the blame lies squarely with us. We shouldn't act a certain way if we know it will cause someone to suffer, even if we don't fully understand why. I would ask you to try to be tolerant...but with jerks around I can see how that can be hard.
I don't understand what was wrong with showing people how to do the electric slide. Was the problem that they didn't ask? Maybe the girl who joined didn't believe she could learn the move by dancing on the sidelines. May I remind you that being taught was how your 'energy' helped you to teach each other moves? Also, I don't understand how taking over the dance floor respects our culture...
I completely understand what
I completely understand what you're saying. Sometimes white people do tend to mimic black's moves. Some white people are very rude and uncourteous. Please just remember that the way you were treated in this club can NOT prove in any way that all whites do such things.
Most of the time if someone in a club sees me doing a move they aren't sure I know how to do, they ask if they can help. I really do find most black people I meet to be very courteous and I always make sure to be nice to them too. I love the way black people can dance. However, I don't think it is something that is learned because of your culture. A white person can learn to just as good or better than a black person. I think it is the connection that blacks have with music that helps them to start learning at a younger age.
Black people, Spanish people, Irish people, White people, we all have different ways of dancing. To be truthful, no one can say that Whites can't do 'black' dances because no dance is 'black'. More than one culture contributes to every dance step, dance routine, or way of dancing that is made. Some whites in fact do take to these so called 'black' dances just as easy as blacks.
The point which I am trying to get to is that you cannot truthfully say that white people, in general, cannot dance. This is an opinionated statement and time should not be wasted upon.
Email me if you'd like, but I don't want to fight.
It's a lovely report in itself.
Love to ALL races,
-V
Ps. Yes, I am white.
While this is a very unique
While this is a very unique and well constructed argument as a whole, it begins with a false premise--the existence of race. You see, there really is only one race, the human race. After that, within any group large enough to have members who have the freedom to participate and learn to dance, there are some who do not participate. Of course, some people seem to have been born with certain abilities, but most of us have to learn just about everything. Open your eyes and see beautiful dance performed by every "hue" man or "hue" woman.