Women, Sport, and Film Course

Sponsored by the Department of Athletics and Physical Education at Bryn Mawr College, with support from the Center for Science In Society at Bryn Mawr College and the Serendip website.

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FORUM ARCHIVE

WEEK 2


Name:  Amy Campbell
Username:  acampbel@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Bend It Like Beckham
Date:  2004-02-05 17:01:47
Message Id:  7993
Comments:
React/Respond

How does sport reflect the tensions between tradition and modernity, or the masculine and the feminine.

Which character do you most identify with? Why?


Name:  Jes
Username:  jbourne@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Response
Date:  2004-02-08 15:57:39
Message Id:  8035
Comments:
How does sport reflect the tensions between tradition and modernity, or the masculine and the feminine. Which character do you most identify with? Why? Well, women in sports is a 'modern' thing, so really, any woman who is from a traditional family and wants to play sports is probably going to encounter some conflict. To get out there and do masculine things-- dress like men, sweat like men, be active like men-- is going to counter any culture which has a 'gentle' woman ideal. I didn't really identify with anyone in the movie, myself. Jules, though, was a lot like my cousin, who's very much into soccer and not much into dating boys. Which is a source of great distress to my aunt.
Name:  Julia F.
Username:  
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-08 21:25:39
Message Id:  8047
Comments:
How does sport reflect the tensions between tradition and modernity, or the masculine and the feminine. Which character do you most identify with? Why?

Because of the tensions already with women in sport, the gender issue is often raised. In the movie, Jess's friends basically go to her match just to see girls, instead of seeing the game, which was the focal point. Even though they are her friends, they don't understand that she has just as much validity as a football player as they do, perhaps more. Her friends expect her to act feminine, and it disturbs them to see her in what was traditionally a masculine sport. Instead of confronting their views, they ridicule what the girls are doing by seeing it as a sort of joke. I think that I identify most with Jules also, because she knows what she wants to do, and doesn't let anyone interfere or tell her otherwise. Strong-willed.


Name:  Sarah
Username:  shalther@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-09 01:02:01
Message Id:  8057
Comments:
How does sport reflect the tensions between tradition and modernity, or the masculine and the feminine.

Which character do you most identify with? Why?

The tension was shown in the contrast between Jes's world on the field and her world at home. I especially liked the scenes that showed these two world interacting. For example, there is the scene where she does foot drills with the vegetables while her mother tries to show her how to cook a good, full meal. Her mother becomes angry and pulls her away from the foot drills. The traditional world would have Jes cooking and fulfilling her role as a wife, while the modern has her running and playing soccer. I also liked the scenes where the tension between these worlds fell away a bit. This was shown in the scene where her fellow soccer mates helped her into her traditional outfit so she could return to her sister's marriage.

Jule's dad was a lot like both of my parents; they only encouraged me to play. I didn't identify with any character because while my parents encouraged me to do my best, I never met any push to be something that I didn't want to be. While my father would have loved for me to pursue science and a medical degree, both of my parents have been very supportive of my English major.


Name:  Kate
Username:  kamlin@bmc
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-09 18:31:25
Message Id:  8071
Comments:
How does sport reflect the tensions between tradition and modernity, or the masculine and the feminine.

My favorite theme of the movie demonstrates the clash of traditional culture and modern sports.... The wedding scene contrasting Jess and her sister is a great illustration of how women in sports shatter traditional norms of femininity and challenge the role of women in specific societies.

Which character do you most identify with? Why?

I don't identify strongly with any of the characters, but I admire Jess the most for pursuing her passion and breaking custom.


Name:  Katie
Username:  kaker@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Commentary
Date:  2004-02-09 23:30:39
Message Id:  8082
Comments:
Throughout past decades, a traditional household was said to be one where the woman stays at home, not participating in the society of man. By challenging these gender roles, in sport and society, women have also been expanding the limits to what is considered feminine and traditional. While the 'ideal' female of the not too distant past possessed qualities of weakness, submission, and all-around 'girliness', the woman of sport today is strong, dominating, and in control of her power as a woman. Sport has allowed an outlet for women to advance in society, pushing the traditional boundaries and generating new ones.

I identified most with Jes because she had to deal with barriers, cultural & familial, that I have had to face in similar situations.


Name:  Amy Campbell
Username:  acampbel@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  next response
Date:  2004-02-10 11:20:41
Message Id:  8091
Comments:
Great respones - hope you are enjoying thinking and sharing your thoughts with the 'team'!

Both Jess and Julie are passionate about playing soccer-and don't see their participation in gender terms yet their frinds and families relate to their participation through the lens of gender and in the case of Julie's mother, sexual orientation. Why does sport heighten the conversation re: gender and orientation for women and not for men? Are there other places in society this happens?


Name:  Julia F.
Username:  
Subject:  hmm...
Date:  2004-02-10 22:17:10
Message Id:  8109
Comments:
Both Jess and Julie are passionate about playing soccer-and don't see their participation in gender terms yet their frinds and families relate to their participation through the lens of gender and in the case of Julie's mother, sexual orientation. Why does sport heighten the conversation re: gender and orientation for women and not for men? Are there other places in society this happens?

I always thought that sport brought women's sexual orientation into question because originally it was seen as though women were taking on men's attributes, such as being strong, fast, athletic. It didn't happen for men because these attributes were already attributed to them. I'm not sure about this, but it seems to follow that in the past when women took on roles that were mainly male dominated at the time, their sexuality would be called into question. My best guess would be when women became doctors or lawyers. But as to now, I don't know.


Name:  Katie
Username:  kaker@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Commentary 2
Date:  2004-02-11 17:49:01
Message Id:  8117
Comments:
Sport heightens the conversation regarding gender and orientation for women, much more than for men, because of steroetypes of society. A strong athletic man is a 'manly man' and participating in sports is 'normal' for that stereotype. On the other hand, a strong athletic woman's sexuality is questioned just because she wants to compete like the men. I think that its more about society's expectations for women rather than society recognizing already that women are equals to men. Our society has terms like 'woman' doctor or 'male' nurse that further dictate how far we still have to go for true equality. Men are teased for wanting to supposedly 'lower themselves' to the role of a woman when working in roles that are stereotypically female, and the same is true for women in the workplace, but to a higher degree. If a woman wants to be a blacksmith or cattle wrangler she gets the same reaction as a strong woman in sport.
Name:  Jen
Username:  jcolella@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Modern and traditional
Date:  2004-02-11 18:43:59
Message Id:  8120
Comments:
Hey everybody,

I feel there is a pull between the modern and the traditional especially with the internet and other media communications. You don't have to move to be dealing with "first generation" culture shock in the world today. I loved the way the movie didn't necessarily judge between the two because I don't feel a comparison would be appropriate. Both are different, and people shouldn't have to forget who they are to enjoy who they can be in today's more egalitarian world. I think sports stresses the tension between tradition and modern because, like Jess said, it is such an extreme from the traditional.

I think I associate with Jess because she doesn't know what she wants and is pulled. I can associate with that sort of confusion.


Name:  Ria Banerjee
Username:  sbanerje@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-11 23:53:58
Message Id:  8128
Comments:
Sport is a good arena to explore the tensions between masculine/feminine, tradition/modernity because it reflects what's happening in our society. For example, as Bend It Like Beckham showed us, a lot of British Indians have to deal with conflicts in their parents' lifestyles and their own. Also, the boys who taunted Jassi for playing football shows the patriarchal idea that boys play football but girls can't. Sport thus acts as a mirror to society.

I identified most with the character of Jassi because she overcomes obstacles and tries to compromise so reconcile her parents and her chosen lifestyle.


Name:  Sarah
Username:  shalter@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-12 01:14:52
Message Id:  8131
Comments:
Both Jess and Julie are passionate about playing soccer-and don't see their participation in gender terms yet their frinds and families relate to their participation through the lens of gender and in the case of Julie's mother, sexual orientation. Why does sport heighten the conversation re: gender and orientation for women and not for men? Are there other places in society this happens?

Up until just recently, women were supposed to be passive, quiet and submissive. These three traits are opposite the traits that sports encourage. In sports you have to be competitive, aggressive and, therefore, "masculine." Even as times change and women are allowed to be more vocal and stronger, the old labels linger. It's really hard to get rid of thousands of years of ideology.

I think this still happens a lot anywhere. If a guy in a company is competitive, he's aggressive and that's good. But a woman of the same quality would be called a bitch. Of course, I think all of this is changing. But it's not happening overnight. A girl can play field hockey and that's totally accepted, but girls who play softball are supposed to be dykes. No, it's not fair, but that stereotype remains. This can also go for schools. I'm sure every one of us has been asked if all Bryn Mawr girls are lesbians.




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