Women, Sport, and Film Course

Cosponsored by Athletics and Physical Education at Bryn Mawr College and the Exercise and Sports Studies Department at Smith College, with support from the Center for Science In Society at Bryn Mawr College and the Serendip website.

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FORUM ARCHIVE

WEEK 3 - FORUM 2


Name:  Amy Campbell
Username:  acampbel@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Forum Question for Week 3
Date:  2002-02-21 11:31:15
Message Id:  1104
Comments:
Forum Question for Week 3

The director chose certain visual shots, scripted dialogue and personal interactions to convey a message about your character. (Rachel, Bev, Lori, Carla or the judges) What is the director attempting to "say" about your character?

BMC students: please take a moment to read the e-mail sent today that gives important information on the final paper and the format for next Wednesday's class.


Name:  Amy Campbell
Username:  acampbel@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Forum question for week 3 from Professor Shelton and the Smith discussion
Date:  2002-02-21 17:01:11
Message Id:  1112
Comments:
Define --as your assigned character would define them, and you may
use examples--
Sexuality
Sensuality
Feminity
Name:  AK
Username:  AK
Subject:  Forum Question 3
Date:  2002-02-24 22:26:13
Message Id:  1132
Comments:
The director chose to film the majority of Bev's scenes in the gym, focusing on her physical appearance, namely her drive to maximize her size. (i.e.- adding 1/2 in. around her torso)While the others competitors were filmed practicing their routine and fussing with their hair and bikinis, Bev was only seen mocking the muscle posing formalities and lifting weights. She was constantly surrounded by her trainer and friends, thereby illustrating that her two priorities were her muscle building and her desire to have fun and be positive. Unlike the other women, she did not directly talk to the camera as much. Rather, most of her scenes were observational.
All of this directly relates to the mental image the director presented to the viewing audience. Bev comes across as a pure athlete, a woman driven for the sole purpose of increasing muscle mass and sculpting her body to the max. While her dialogue is limited, the interviews that she does conduct on screen and the conversations that she takes part in are geared toward the concept of femininity. Though she does not appear to doubt herself, she is constantly worrying about the way in which others will perceive her. Does she look like a woman? Will the audience/judges appreciate her? All of this cumulates toward a feeling of pity and sympathy for her character, emotions obviously rendered through the director's portrayal of Bev and her fellow competitors.
Name:  Jennifer Prince
Username:  jprince@bmc.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2002-02-24 22:58:53
Message Id:  1136
Comments:
Obviously Bev believed that your sexuality, sensuality as well as feminity were irrelevent to the competition. She would have most likely defined sexuality as in regards to your sexual preferrence. Sensuality would be more along the lines of how one chooses to express their sexual preference. Feminity is a woman's way of expressing herself as a woman. These definitions in Bev's opinion are not ones which should be generalized. Each person defines these qualities for themselves.
Name:  Monica Locsin
Username:  mlocsin@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Forum Question # 3
Date:  2002-02-25 01:33:36
Message Id:  1139
Comments:
1.) The character that was assigned to my group was Bev. To be honest, I like her character the best. Bev and Carla were the characters that I thought represented true atheletes. One is that they were both mentally and physically dedicated to their sport and they respected their competetors. When you compete, you must have good sportsmanship. Bev definitely had that. Just because she didnt win and made the 8th place, she did not make a big issue about it. I am sure that deep down she was hurt but because of her good sportsmanship and her attitude towards life, she didn't take the whole situation out of hand. The director portrayed Bev as a very masculine woman who excelled in the sport body building and as a woman who was being treated unfairly because they thought that she did not represent the woman physique. It is blatant that Bev is a victim of bias. The director wanted to show this so that we the audience have a view of how some things are in reality even though we may not want to see it.
2.)Bev---
Sexuality-Bev is a woman who does not focus on sexuality but rather on her sport. In the movie, her sexuality was being questioned which was not right.
Sensuality-As for sensuality, Bev was not really into this. I do not consider her sport graceful.
Femininity-Bev did try to be feminine to be accepted in the competition because many people especially the judges were against her being the winner even though she did deserve the gold.
Name:  Celeste
Username:  ccavines@email.smith.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2002-02-25 16:27:28
Message Id:  1157
Comments:
My character was Bev. I believe that she defined femininity as a woman persuing what she loved. She also believed that muscles on women were powerful, and feminine. I think she looked at sensuality and sexuality as both things that could be found in muscles on women. She also did not really think that they should be the basis of judging for the competition.
In terms of how Bev was portrayed it seemed as if the director wanted us to set up Bev as the outsider, the one who did not fit in. By doing this they created a conflict which the viewer had to take a side on. Most of the shots of Bev seemed to show her as having fun, joking around but never did they show her in the same manner that Rachel was portrayed, as the sexual object to be admired. It also seemed that the director wanted Bev's sexuality in question, she did not have a boyfriend or husband and while she had male coaches her relationshipp with them was uncertain. Throughout the movie Bev was the one who was different than everyone else in all ways, she was the one who was going to give bodybuilding a bad name.
Name:  Faith
Username:  fwassman@email.smith.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2002-02-25 17:31:58
Message Id:  1159
Comments:
The director chose certain visual shots, scripted dialogue and personal interactions to convey a message about your character. (Rachel, Bev, Lori, Carla or the judges) What is the director attempting to "say" about your character?

The camera men chosse to show shots of Bev mainly when she was preparing for the competition. There were many shots of her in the gym training, as opposed to the other competitors who are shown lounging around the pool and in the bedroom. I think that the shots of Bev training were used as a comparison to show the difference between how she trains and how the other women train. One of the things I noticed was that the camera men zoomed in on a lot of the other women while they were working out. When they did this you were able to see all the make-up they were wearing, and when they zoomed in on Bev, you didn't see any make-up on her at all. The director does show Bev outside of the gym, but it seems like she is always preparing for the competition in some way. To me, this made Bev seem like the more determined athlete. I thought she seemed a lot more focused than the other women because she was not concerned about her appearance at all.
I thought the way the directors protrayed Bev in terms of her dialogue between others made her appear to the the gracious and polite competitor. Throughout the film, there was the constant battle about Bev's body compared to the other women's bodies. There were acusations that Bev was not femanine enough. And many of the other women made snide comments behind her back. I thought that Bev handled the question from Rachel about, "what is feminity to you?", by acknowledging Rachel's answer, "to look like a Barbie", but then saying that she believes that she has taken that to the next level. That gave Rachel very little to argue with. When Bev placed last amoung the eight finalists, she was very gracious and polite when she accepted her award, where as Rachel pouted off stage when she placed second.

Define --as your assigned character would define them, and you may
use examples--
Sexuality - I think of sexuality as any attempt at sex appeal. I don't think that Bev really paid any attention to this aspect of the sport. She was there to prove that she had the best body, not that she could seduce the judges. Because she didn't make any attempt to be sexual, I think that people began to question her sexuality.
Sensuality - I think of sensuality as being anything that appeals to the senses. I think that this is less blatent than sexuality. I don't think that Bev was concered about this either, and I don't think that she would be seen as very sensual in most women's eyes. Some men may have been impressed with her body though, and maybe she came across as visually sensual to them??
Feminity - I think that Bev made an attempt at being feminine, but it didn't work out so well for her. During her optional routine, I thought that she made an attempt at dancing the way the other women were, but on her it just looked awkward. I think Bev would say that she is feminine, but has surpassed the level of feminity that most people are familiar with.


Name:  Sarah Cushwa
Username:  scushwa@smith.edu
Subject:  forum question week #3
Date:  2002-02-25 22:06:18
Message Id:  1175
Comments:
My forum chose to follow Bev Francis. In terms of sexuality, the camera rarely shows her breasts, Instead it focuses mainly on her thighs. The camera also never shows her in tight, skimpy outfits, but rather portrays her in simple work out clothes or necessary competitive bikinis. It also does not included her in the "kinky" extracurricular activity (showers and poolside frolics)of her competitors. Most of the scenes with Bev in them take place in the gym. Therefore, I am led to think that Bev defines sexuality as a somewhat noncommercial, nonexsistent issue. She prefers to focus on her love of the sport. When I think of sensuality, I think of bodily or sexual pleasure that can be lewd or lustful. Bev seems to only gain pleasure from believing in herself as an athlete and bodybuilding in a "dingy back room gym". Lewd and lustful are not words that come to her mind. Femininity seems to be the biggest issue for Bev, since she is not what one would call conventionally feminine. Unlike all the other competitors, she does not wear eye makeup and does not consider herself to be a "ballet dancer or a gymnast". In Bev's mind, there should be no distinction between femininity and masculinity. She believes that she is just like a male bodybuilder- "strong like a statue".
Name:  Sarah Cushwa
Username:  scushwa@smith.edu
Subject:  forum question week #3
Date:  2002-02-25 22:06:44
Message Id:  1176
Comments:
My forum chose to follow Bev Francis. In terms of sexuality, the camera rarely shows her breasts, Instead it focuses mainly on her thighs. The camera also never shows her in tight, skimpy outfits, but rather portrays her in simple work out clothes or necessary competitive bikinis. It also does not included her in the "kinky" extracurricular activity (showers and poolside frolics)of her competitors. Most of the scenes with Bev in them take place in the gym. Therefore, I am led to think that Bev defines sexuality as a somewhat noncommercial, nonexsistent issue. She prefers to focus on her love of the sport. When I think of sensuality, I think of bodily or sexual pleasure that can be lewd or lustful. Bev seems to only gain pleasure from believing in herself as an athlete and bodybuilding in a "dingy back room gym". Lewd and lustful are not words that come to her mind. Femininity seems to be the biggest issue for Bev, since she is not what one would call conventionally feminine. Unlike all the other competitors, she does not wear eye makeup and does not consider herself to be a "ballet dancer or a gymnast". In Bev's mind, there should be no distinction between femininity and masculinity. She believes that she is just like a male bodybuilder- "strong like a statue".
Name:  Jim Pike
Username:  jpike@student.umass.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2002-02-25 23:57:53
Message Id:  1186
Comments:
i fell that sensuality fouses on the sense other the sight. while sexuality is based on sight and femmininty is the combantion of the two. i also feel that this "sport" is just a new form of a beauty pagaent. Bev was in to the sport of bodybuliding which in MY definition means to build your body with mussels. The judes and the runners of the pagaent were so afriad of Bev because she was a real bodybulider and not a pretty girl. If Bev would have won the pagaent would have lost alot of their TV rattings from men who just want to see oiled girls in skimpy bikinis.
Name:  Deepti Menghani
Username:  dmenghan@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  week 4
Date:  2002-02-26 10:29:55
Message Id:  1203
Comments:
My forum focused on Bev Francis. The movie showed her working out a lot in the gym. She wears simple gym attire, unlike characters like Rachel that wear skimpy, tight athletic clothing. I admire Bev because she made bodybuilding all about the sport and not the way she looked. Bev encounters problems with the judges because her idea of femininity is different from their idea of femininity. She does not wear heavy makeup or strut gracefully. She is different from society's ideal woman. Bev does not fit the ideal woman body builder in this contest. Bev would have a better chance winning a men's competition because of her structure. It is difficult for Bev to win the women's competition because she is so different. She may have a better chance of winning from her home country, Australia because their idea of a body builder woman may be different from U.S.'s idea of a body builder woman.
Name:  Maggie
Username:  mscottwe@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2002-02-26 18:01:32
Message Id:  1222
Comments:
The director chose to show Bev mostly working out and pushing herself to be stronger, to life more, to lose weight. In the few scenes where she wasn't in the gym, Bev was joking around with her family and friends. She was portrayed as a hard-worker who was dedicated to the sport, and she was personable and fun. Most of the other women in the contest were shown with boyfriends, being stressed out about the competition and usually not having as much fun. There were still shots of them in the gym, but the ratio of scenes with Bev working out as opposed to lounging around was higher than it was for them. I feel that the director was trying to show Bev as more dedicated to weight lifting, and also as more athletic. He was also trying to make us like her more than the other competitors by showing her being humorous and having fun.
I think that for Bev, sexuality is similar to sex appeal, and sensuality refers to things that are appealing to all sense. The scent of a flower could be sensual, but it would rarely be considered sexual. Feminity in Bev's view is however the woman defines herself as a woman, whether it is how she looks, how she acts, how she feels, or how she thinks.
Name:  Trish
Username:  tgould@smith.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2002-02-26 19:55:09
Message Id:  1228
Comments:
Sensuality is something having to do with the senses, your interpretation of sights, sounds and scents in your immediate environment. Sexuality is a more intimate state of being. The personality you project to others that you wish them to perceive as only you I believe has much to do w. your sexuality.
My group focused on Bev. She was a person who had great amounts of self-confidence and respenct for herself and her sport. She didn't feel it necessary to bress in flashy bikinis to impress the judges, for one thing that just wasn't her, but for another she believed that body building was about the muscles you have, their size and form (not what kind of make-up shades you are wearing). It was not a beauty contest and she didn't want to change herself into one of those other 'Barbie dolls'. As she said in the movie, "she had been there and moved beyond that." Bev didn't deserve 8th place in the contest, but until the judges can move form their old ways of thinking, there is only a small place but important place for Bev and others like her in the sport of body building.
Name:  Lauren Holway
Username:  lwholway@mtholyoke.edu
Subject:  question 1
Date:  2002-02-26 20:46:17
Message Id:  1233
Comments:
Our group focused on Bev. I believe that the camera shots of Bev mainly focusing on her training or her hanging out with her friends were used to show that she was less of a Barbie dol than most of the other competitors. The focus on her training and her muscles was very important to show that she was more of a bodybuilder/powerlifter than a contestant in a bodybulding/beauty pageant. These scenes with Bev showed that she had more interest in building muscle than in doing her hair or makeup and also to show that she found humor in the way these contests were put on. When Bev mimics the dancing of the other women, and then laughs about men doing their moves shes displaying the difference between the two contests.
Name:  Kerry Flanagan
Username:  kflanaga@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Forum Question
Date:  2002-02-27 01:19:43
Message Id:  1243
Comments:
Define --as your assigned character would define them, and you may
use examples--
Sexuality
Sensuality
Feminity.....

Bev beleived herself to be feminine. Although her physical appearance was not that of a "typical" woman, Bev knew that feminity could take many different forms, a fact reinforced by her many assertions that she is a woman.
In terms of sexuality and sensuality, Bev attributed these traits to a select number of women. When she looked at Rachael and the other women competing, she did not seem to respect them as comperable athletes. While she acknowledged that their priorities were different, (they were not training to be the most well-defined) she associated their attention to outer appearences and accesories as trivial and purely sexual. She realized that these other women were appealing to the male judges and the audience, rather than competing on a muscular level.


Name:  Sarah Welsh
Username:  swelsh@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2002-02-27 01:34:42
Message Id:  1244
Comments:
Define --as your assigned character would define them, and you may
use examples--
Sexuality
Sensuality
Feminity.....

I believe that being a woman for Bev encompassed a different set of standards than it did for the other members of the pageant and particularly the judges. The fact that she was a woman was incidental for her, and she only worried about it in so much as she wanted to do well in the competition and knew that others perceptions of her would affect the outcome. Bev knew she was a woman because she had the proper organs, she didn't need to prove it by adhering to what other people thought a woman should be. I agree with a previous post that stated that sensuality has to do with the senses. For a woman in particular, sensuality has to do with appealing to another person's senses, which Bev was not concerned about. She simply wanted to be the best at what she did.


Name:  Monica
Username:  mvanbusk@smith.edu
Subject:  Reaction to Posts
Date:  2002-02-27 10:02:13
Message Id:  1253
Comments:
Hello, I am a research assistant for Chris Shelton, one of the professors for this course, and was asked to read the forum.

I've seen most of Pumping Iron II, though not all. The most interesting thing to me in this forum, is that people have commented
on Bev's femininity or lack therof, but only one person offered a definition.

Sussanah said that she was upset that the bodybuilding contest was more of a beauty pageant. Lelani said that she thought
bodybuilding and femininity don't go together. What do we expect from bodybuilding? Is it impossible to be muscular and
beautiful at the same time? Is it really impossible to be feminine and muscular as the same time? Why are the two in conflict with
each other? (muscular vs. feminine and beautiful) And should we assume that feminine and beautiful are the same thing?

Dasen, Kelly, and Katie offered that Bev redefined femininity. She is gracious, graceful, kind, and Dasen and Co. suggested
that these are feminine qualities that Bev has although she doesn't *look* feminine. Everyone on the post agreed that Bev
*looked* masculine, but if she really challenges our definition of femininity, I don't believe that she challenges us to define it as a
way of acting, regardless of look, I think she challenges it all around. Sarah Johnson posted that the way the judges were
portrayed challenged us to think about how we judge bodies in sport. I think it goes farther. The combination of Bev's actions
and *look* that she desired, along with the way the judges were portrayed, challenge how we look at bodies in general, and
how we define feminine and masculine physical qualities.

Several times in the movie, people commented that Bev looked like a man. If she was obviously a woman, how can she look
like anything other than herself? Just by the nature of her existence, she *had* to *look* feminine. She is s female. Maybe it's
something for all of us to think about next time we look at a man or a woman and say that they look like the opposite gender.
Maybe it's time we redefine femininity and masculinity on a physical and more uncomfortable level.

Thanks,
Monica


Name:  Joan Steiner
Username:  jsteiner@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Bev Francis
Date:  2002-02-27 13:49:37
Message Id:  1256
Comments:
Bev Francis is an individual who is not afraid to take risks and reach her full potential as an athlete and performer. She obviously didn't shy away from attempting to push the envelope, even though it was quite uncertain whether or not she would be accepted or rejected by the world of Female Bodybuilding.

In terms of Sexuality, Sensuality, and Femininity, Bev would probably say those are elements which really should not, but evidently are a part of bodybuilding. I'm sure Bev's own sexuality was questioned, due to the fact she was very athletic, muscular, and not traditionally pretty. Being a girl from the country she wasn't overtly fussy with the hair and make-up, but like any other woman we saw that she was feeling insecure, concerned, nervous, and preoccupied. I think those moment of vulnerability brought the audience back to the fact that Bev Francis is a woman through and through.