Questions, Intuitions, Revisions: Telling and Re-Telling Stories About Ourselves in the World A College Seminar Course at Bryn Mawr College

Your three good fairies (or are we wicked stepparents?) have so much enjoyed reading your range of responses to last week's two questions...

that we've decided to offer you a choice again this week. We invite you either to respond to a rather "abstract" question, or to tell a more "concrete" (if fanciful!?) tale. (We'd also be curious to know if you have a sense of why/how one sort of question draws you more than another....?)

1. Friedrich Schiller wrote, "Deeper meaning resides in the fairy tales told to me in my childhood than in the truth that is taught by life."

What do you think of fairy tales? In comparison to the "truth that is taught by life"? (Off the top of your head, in a few sentences/phrases for you and others to mull over...).

2. We'd also be interested in hearing some of the stories that we are beginning (inevitably? IS this inevitable?) to make up about one another. So, as an alternative task.... tell a (very brief!) story about (one or more of) the professors (aka fairies/stepparents...) in this cluster.

Looking forward to meeting you all on Sunday evening, when we will gather in the English House Lecture Hall, 6-8 p.m., for pizza and performances of our various fairy tales.

Professors/Fairies/Witches #1, 2, 3

Fairy-tales work with different matter of the brain than what life's lessons teaches. I feel as though my unconscious attunes to fairy-tales whereas my logic follows life's lessons. My logic doesn't follow fairy-tales, but my unconscious does respond to life's lessons. Therefore I feel that life's lessons influence me more than these fairy-tales ever did.

Fairytales have a subliminal effect on me. I still believe that true love exists. And love at first sight is possible. That some people do live happily after. These beliefs inject magic, and mystery into life; for there are plenty of inexplicable things that happen in the world. What has life taught me? Life taught me different things at various stages to make me a better person. Life forces me to make difficult decisions. Life makes me aware of its fragility.

Which is why it is inadequate to draw a comparison... For each individual derive different meanings from fairytales and life, and what truths we choose to take away with us and make it our own, are as telling as the things we left behind.

Fairy tales are not more important to me than life's lessons. Was I obsessed with them as a child? Oh yes. Did I waltz around the house pretending to be Cinderella? You bet. Was cuddling up with my mother for story time my favorite time of day? Of course. But these were childhood experiences that make for fond memories and don't carry much significance to my life today.

Though I do credit these stories with providing fodder for my sometimes zany imagination and spurts of creativity, I don't think, "Now what would have Snow White done in this situation?" when I am confronted with a problem.

The fairy tale princesses of my imagination couldn't help me when I had problems with the virtual registrar's office. The ops in Guild, however, gave me the assistance I needed. The princesses didn't teach me that when the soles of my sandals are falling off I shouldn't wear them anymore. I learned that life lesson by falling down the concrete stairs in front of the SGA office, thus entangling my keys in the railing on my descent. Don't worry - it sounds more painful than it was. :)

Life lessons are holding a jar by the lid and watching the contents spill to the floor and the jar shattering, or petting a cat the wrong way and getting scratched, or realizing that it's more special to write a letter to a friend rather than to communicate exclusively by e-mail, not that beauty will get you a prince and a happily ever after. The life lessons that shape me are things that I have experienced, not things I have read.

I'm not saying that fairy tales aren't significant or that they aren't important, I just feel that their value is providing entertainment for children. Nothing more, nothing less.

As an 18 year old big kid/young adult/adult/"you'll have to wait until you're 21 until you're a real adult" adult, whichever way you look at it, I enjoy reading fairy tales because the reading is relaxing and it reminds me of a time when life was simple and uncomplicated, unlike this unwieldy explanation that I have just provided.

The fairy tales I have read have taught that class difference can only be overcome by "marrying up," that my problems will go away with the discovery of my prince (ie husband), and that women, no matter how clever, eventually end up following the desires of men.

My "life of learning" has taught me otherwise. I have learned class difference can be overcome by friendship and honesty, that my problems will go away with hard work and perseverance, and that women and men live lives both for one another (in marriage) and by themselves, to fulfill their own desires.

Many women have had that fantasy that "someday my prince will come and rescue me and life will be perfect, etc., etc." I don't want to suggest that certain fairy tales don't teach that-- because obviously they do-- but I think that particular idea has been taken up by our culture and rammed down our throats. Go to any toy store and check out the "girls" section: you've got princesses waiting for princes, you've got brides, you've got board games about getting dates, hell I just saw a commercial for a new "Belle" (from Disney's Beauty and the Beast) doll who says, "I wonder if he'll ask us to dance?" Why not say,"Let's ask the Beast to dance."? So I think that princess waiting on a prince--I need to be rescued--It's not good to be alone-- thing has become much bigger than it ever would have been if it was just restricted to fairy tales.

Now I'm on a roll, so here goes... one of the things Anne and I talked about in our meeting was Bettelheim's stressing that fairy tales help the child understand that he (and he did use he lot, didn't he?) would not grow up to be alone, that it seemed Bettelheim was saying that to be alone was not ok. I thought, that's not right, kids should be taught that you can be a whole person by yourself, you don't need another to be complete. Well, if we accept that fairy tales work their subconscious magic on children of a certain age, perhaps the stories need to present that togetherness idea because young children are not yet capable of understanding the concept of being "one and whole in the world." I'm not a psychologist, but maybe a child of that age would be emotionally unready for that concept.

One more point, and I know I am over-generalizing here, but to come back around to the thought that fairy tales all by themselves are not teaching women to be "ladies-in-waiting"-- if fairy tales are mostly responsible for that attitude, why don't we see more men having the idea/feeling that they are incomplete without a woman? --Because that idea is present in these stories as well-- my answer would be that once boys have gone beyond the "fairy tale age" they begin to get different messages from society while women continue to be bombarded with particular aspects of fairy tale stuff. So, for whatever reason (we all know them: patriarchial society; women will take over; God made men first, damn it; who'll raise the children; men won't have anyplace to work, etc., etc.)there is a payoff to trying to keep girls/women in that place. Could it be a........conspiracy?? (If you were in our c-sem class hopefully you'll get that joke)

Much longer than a few short sentences... sorry everybody!

Wow, Schiller must've been told some pretty amazing stories when he was young.

Anyway, here goes again.
After listening to and reflecting on the (fairy tale)stories shared in our C-Sem class I would have to say that Bettelheim does have something to say. Many of the stories were intensely personal and revealed something about our inmost selves. I would agree that fairy tales and their images and symbols resonate with the subconscious and have psychological and even therapeutic power. I would also agree that unconscious urges like sibling rivalry, desire, oedipal urges, anger, guilt, fear can be processed through stories and symbols. From the stories given in our class, it would appear that even the act of "telling" the story has psychological power. I guess this is the whole premise of art therapy, in which inside stuff comes out so easily in drawing, painting, sculpture,drama etc. and especially but not exclusively with children.
I would not agree that I learned the more from fairy tales than from real experiences in life. Imagination and play had a large role in childhood development, in processing the world... but leaving that world of the imagination and testing abilities in concrete situations, learning skills,
interacting with people empowered me to develop further and to see myself as a capable, strong woman. Fairy tales did not do what real life has done. And, in fact, some of the messages of fairy tales had to be outgrown, analyzed and recognized as destructive rather than helpful.
Climbing and hiking up a mountain did more for me than reading Cinderella
ever could. Imagination and real experience are both essential to development, but in different ways. Imagination is still useful in processing the world around me, but from a position of empowerment, and autonomy rather than from someone else handing me a story. I can visualize and imagine and even be intuitive about a life experience of my own choosing,I can use symbol and imagery and story to do this, because the mind remains a powerful tool.(But I also have concrete ways to test my strengths and learn my weaknesses, to learn from others and their experiences. Being an adult and able to act on and in the world around me is different from the fairly powerless state of a child still subject to parents and not in control of their own lives. And I think Bettelheim makes a point about the usefulness of fantasy and stories to help a child process this and deal with her feelings of frustration and her deep psychic urges. I recognize the potential of story and symbol and imagery and it is mightier than I imagined. And I recognize a responsibility now to form better stories, and I do find the old stories like "Little Red Riding Hood" and "Sleeping Beauty" to be destructive and even insidious in their messages.
I don't mean to say that children's stories should only be light and happy and la la la..I think there is a dark side to childhood fantasy and experience which is dynamic and useful and dangerous to repress. But I think that the model for resolution of these urges needs to be empowerment of the individual and constructive strong characterizations.

Sure, this makes sense to me. I personally don't feel this way, but I can understand where he's coming from. Fairy tales can be skewed and interepreted to conform to anyones life. One can relate any aspect of their life to something fictional, precisely because it isn't real. As we read in Bettelheim, for example a stepmother can be equated to our own mother when we are angry, or an opening or closing line can be analyzed in any way to relate to our personal life. Fairy tales have no meaning, thus meaning needs to be created on a personal basis.
I don't know how much sense that made...

The New York Times Magazine (August 11, 2002) had a title story called "Coincidence in an Age of Conspiracy," which my section talked about @ length last week, and which I thought might be of interest to the rest of you in our cluster. I certainly think it is a very important essay. It says, in part,

"Human beings are pattern-seeking animals...[conspiring] to make coincidences more meaningful than they really are....our brains fill in the factual blanks.....optical illusions.....prove that our brain is capable of imposing structure on the world...One of the things our brain is designed to do is infer the causal structure of the world from limited information. If not for this ability...a child could not learn to speak. A child sees a conspiracy...in that others around him are obviously communicating and it is up to the child to decode the method. But these same mechanisms can misfire....It's why we have the urge to work everything into one big grand scheme..We do like to weave things together. But have we evolved into fundamentally rational or fundamentally irrational creatures?"

This past Thursday, Stanley Kunitz joined my poetry class for nearly two hours of Q & A, and it was delicious, awesome, magical. He explained that it is crucial and difficult for an artist to find a community that is inspirational and supportive as she/he develops. This got me to thinking (again) about why I've come to Bryn Mawr, what I need from Bryn Mawr.

I've spent 30 years working well enough at something about which I've had little passion, and feeling very isolated even in the company of good professional colleagues during that time. I have vowed to not spend a single minute more engaged in passionless work. I classify study as just another form of work. In essence, I'm looking for my community.

That's where Anne, Paul and Haley come in. I've begun to try you on for size, imagining the daily interactions of a folklorist, anthropologist, biologist, feminist, writer, teacher, etc. And asking myself, as the fly on the wall, "Am I an engaged and happy fly or a discontented fly?" So far, my sparce mental model of Haley's world feels more right.

Haley, I see you as a deeply intuitive person, an oracle, a keeper of the flame. I see you as ethereal as you deepen your wisdom but concrete as you deliver it. For some unknown reason, I see you with a great sense of humor and a sense of the ridiculous, too. I see you as a pioneer who determines her own worth to herself and to others in the application of her work. I see you as a general systems thinker and an artist of a type, ...and then I don't see clearly any more. I'm far beyond what I can sense and need more to fuel images. Mostly, at this point, I think I'm trying to see both of us at once.

See you Sunday night!
Ro

What if... What IF ...WHAT IF

it's not the fairy tales of our youth that have made the deep and lasting impression but the memories of having been read them, having been held warmly and attended to by someone we loved.

And what if, it's also the memory of having been respected in that moment -- because, in that moment, the word "should" was not used; we were not being told what to do, we were being trusted to interpret and day dream our way through the fairytale's messages on our own, for ourselves.

How many times -- from youth to young adult --have we felt that those same people were no longer respecting us in this manner? Maybe not in so many words, but in a child's sadness and feelings of small betrayals. Where were our storytelling guides, our non-judgemental listeners, our trusting allies?

Maybe they were caught up in memories of their own interpretations and adult projections as we each drifted inevitably out of childhood.

Then we talked about how the concept of the atom has changed since we were kids.
Apparently, in the beginning it was thought to look sort of like a plum pudding with chocolate chips on top. (the fact that anyone thought of atoms at all amazes me still)
Then like ten years later, some guy said they have a hard center and called it a nucleus. Then in the 20s Neils Bohr hypothesized that electrons were zinging around in little orbits like a little solar system kind of picture(metaphor). In the 40s and 50s and this is where my textbook was when I was a kid, atoms and there was this shell theory(new metaphor). In the 1960s everybody started talking about a cloud formation (another metaphor) and that you couldn't tell where an electron might be, that they were randomly highly mobile. That maybe you could tell that they were a certain level away from the nucleus and there were some predictable energy levels (my friend wendy told me this is why our eyeballs work ) Oh yes and now I think electrons look something like squashed ballons and have barbell(guess what?) kind of appearances.

All this to say at one point I might have used a metaphor of the atom and the solar system. But now I really can't because with more knowledge came a different metaphor.
And then I wonder, are our metaphors based on more knowledge? Or are they based on other things that are going on too. Like is the reason we associated the shape of the atom with the solar system because we were thinking of a Big Bang theory around that time?
So that one idea framed and influenced the formation of the other?

OK so now we have this question? Can any two objects exist in the same space? If they can, would they then be exactly alike?

ON the other hand, real life experiance can be better than a story. If you trip over a roadblock,then the next time you walk that way you will look for it, as you scraped yout knee the first time. You learn from experiance.

Life's lessons aren't nearly as magical. It seems that when I learn important lessons I am usually smacked in the face with the idea--the idea isn't gently broken to me or set up like a quest in a fairy tale. Besides the abruptness, life's lessons usually come one way--there is little room for variation. Although the structure of fairy tales is almost identical, the lesson is always presented in a different way. The punishment always seems rightfully given and everything turns out happily ever after.

I would not attempt to write about Paul or Hayley because I do not know them. I do not know Anne well but have spent time with her in class for a month, so here it goes...

I am struck by Anne's physical presence in our classroom and in our meetings. She raises her hands over her head, shakes them in front of her to express frustration, flutters them around the room. Perhaps she is part fairy and her arms are her wings. Her physicalness throws me offguard, and at the same time, frees me from my stuffy stiffness. She is not the ivy-watering, bow-tie professor I feared.

The freedom to "ramble" is a gift. Also I am comforted by the fact that handouts have typos, and less than perfect grammar. Coincidence?

But just when you think this fairy is all opalescence and light, she transforms into the evil stepparent, and takes the job of antagonist quite seriously. Why?....to make things interesting/harder, perhaps, but also because the best writers are not always comfortable, and to thrive at Bryn Mawr you must find your voice.

After twenty years of correcting Freshman papers, she must have amazing insight into the minds of 18 year old women....maybe that is why she likes Anne Sexton so much.


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