From Serendip

The Nature of Inquiry: Story Telling and Retelling in the Sciences and Humanities

I think perhaps the rock is some kind of solid foundation (in the sciences) which the fairy tales are based on...we're going to look under the fairy tale castle to find out what the stories are "based" on, maybe?

Or maybe Prof. Grobstien really just likes Magritte. ;)

Oh, my email isn't working yet...so don't email me back for about a wee

For my own thoughts, I think the story behind the picture is whatever you want it to be. A picture like this opens the realm into the creative world because it presents familiar concepts in an unfamiliar way, forcing us to look at things from a different point of view. Or instead, you strive to find something in your own realm of experience to relate it to, such as I did with Gulliver's Travels. (Completely off the subject, just imagine the view you could see from the top tower of that castle! It must be mind-boggling!) Since my creative side is currently suffering from writer's block, I'll leave the story ideas (and the visions of the view from the top of the castle) to the rest of my peers for the moment.

Anyhow, the class persuaded me that Bettleheim is indeed worth that second and third reading I mentioned. And that its worth talking more about "dream" states, and what they're good for (maybe more than escapism?). And about cultural expectations of women (and men). And, curiously, also about education, which it suddenly occurred to me Bettleheim is quite relevant for. So, not a bad start for a course that is supposed to range over several of those topics. Very much looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts, and to seeing your papers on Monday.

I know the reaction to my paper won't be a Nobel prize nomination but I'm not sure if my writing is up to the mythical "college level" I've heard so much about in highschool.

I know my fiction writing is decent but then I'm my own editor and essy writing uses a different set of skills...so...I guess this is a long winded way of saying, "let's just wait and see." (Oh, BTW, my email is now working! Hurrah!)

However, the thing I disliked the most was having to wake up early on Monday morning to hand the paper in.

Thanks too for the conversation today. No, I don't ask questions in class with a particular answer in my mind that I'm waiting for someone to hit on. I'm as curious as you are to see what we hit on, what you say and what I say as well. I usually have a general idea of the area I'd like us to talk about/explore, and maybe of a general place I'd like us to try and get to, but seeing how we get into that area and where we come out on it is part of the fun for me, as I hope it is to you.

So ... I knew I wanted us to talk about writing today, but not at all what we would say exactly. And I liked very much where it came out, so thanks. Yes, writing SHOULD start by being for oneself, as part of the process by which one wrestles with and for oneself about things one cares about. Its part of how one sharpens/analyzes/critiques one's own thoughts. And, the next step is making those thoughts available to other people, not necessarily to convince them, but rather to share them, so one exchange perspectives with others. That's the point, as said in class today, where it becomes important to make one's writing structured/organized, to make the thoughts most accessible to others. The bottom line, as I took it from class: you (and I) are writing not because we are told to by someone but rather because its a part of thinking/making sense of things, and your audience (and mine) is not a teacher but the world, everyone who might be interested in/learn from your (and my) unique perspectives and who one might want in turn to read.

Not at all bad for a days work. Thanks again.

The "interesting" part of the comment was in reponse to how she viewed the characters, as REAL people. Which I found to be enlightening and disturbing, all at once. I think that's how she intended it. I *hope* that's how she intended it.

Some of the poems were like delving into my own mind. Which was wonderful, in a way, but was also terribly disconcerting. But overall the book was good.

I thought that the main point of her paper was to analyze Crystal's story on the Magritte painting and show how the feelings that could be found in the story (of exclusion, hope, etc.) could apply to the life of a small child and decide what kind of beneifts the child could get out of reading Crystal's tale.

A question I wondered about in Katie's paper was if Crystal, as Katie suggested, was aware of the levels that her own story could be read on when she was in the process of writing it.

I thought the best aspect of Katie's writing was the clear language. She didn't try to impress people with hugs words and made her paper understandable for the "world audience."

I thought that the ideas containted in the paragraphs were good ones, but sometimes they did not seem to follow each other logically and I sometimes felt lost when I was reading the paper for this reason until I got my bearing again. That could have been, perhaps, improved a bit. But overall it was a good paper, I

The main point of the paper was that fairy tales can help children overcome psychological problems in life by giving them "the opportunity to create a fantasy out of their reality, and cast the leading figures in their lives into specific roles."

The only question I had about the paper is that while it states that fairy tales are useful, it doesn't answer the question of whether a Bettleheim-type analysis of the tales are useful.

The best aspect of this paper is the organization. Crystal clearly states her "thesis" and proves it; I especially liked the short summary of the tale which was elaborated on further in the paper as the need arose because it made the reader feel familiar with the tale, and thus better understand the paper.

A suggestion for improvement would be to really watch the pronoun agreements because there are some sentences that are confusing and that disrupts the mindset of the reader. For example, one sentence reads "This shows that, even when one does something 'bad', they can still change things." A better example is in the concluding paragraph but is too long to post; it is not clear whether the "they" being referred to is the children of the fairy tales. I know this sounds like I'm really being English-major-picky, but just this small change can really help the reader.

Overall, this is a very good paper.

However, it raised the question in my mind of "What makes this a Bettleheim type essay? Of course, I'm not too clear on that myself, but I'm not sure how this relates to Bettleheim.

I do like the way that it tracks all the way through with the child. As an analysis of child psychology, it makes a great deal of sense. It flows in a logical order and seems to be written relatively authoritatively.

My main suggestion is to figure out more how to tie the first and last paragraphs together, and to not introduce new ideas in the final paragraph, as with the comments about the passage of time. They are important comments, but don't really make for a firm concluding paragraph. Otherwise, this is a very well-written paper! :-)

1. Fairy tales (such as "Snowwhite"), satisfy an early, childhood need for clear divisions between good and evil.

2. Although I know the answer to this question, many others might not. What is an id and wat des it have to do with fairy tales. A brief explanation would have been nice.

3. The second paragraph explained the influence that fairy tales have on young minds, while the next paragraph gave examples. Nice.

4. The third paragraph containing examples of the influence of fairy tales was rather long. It could easily have been broken down into two or three paragraphs, each containing specific examples and their accompanying explana

the message sent out by the story is great for children. The paper emphasizes the importance of fairy tales and focuses well, using the story 'jack of iron' as an example, on why children would benefit greatly from reading these stories.

2) What questions did it raise in your mind?

Will ALL children automatically absorb all these positive aspects of the story. Can we assume all these ideas of fairy tales' usefulness will actually work for all children? 3) Best aspect of writing/presentation/organization?

A) The paper is direct to the point on the usefulness of fairy tales. Thus, it answers the main question well.

B) Writes from own point of view with Bettelheim in mind. Paper is written ..in a natural manner.

C) Good focus (and examples) on the 'message' given by the story.

D) Uses the example of 'jack of iron' very well.

4) One suggestion for improvement in (3): Summary of the story "jack of iron" might not be necessary as an intro? Also, maybe one more example of the usefulness of fairy tales (besides message)..otherwise the question (of the paper) is answered (understood) well by the writer.

Now, after having read a few chapters, although mostly introductory, I do believe that this book holds a lot of truths about the world we live as there's still a lot of things from the 19th century that still exists in the 21st century (sad to say). The part about class system exists even till today in many cultures...where the noble classes' biggest nightmare is to have these "lower beings" trying to work up to their level.